Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Macwomble]

The 73 has RA6, I believe, and is able to take the sleeper into Oban when necessary. I think the 88 would not. Heavy locos access FW under grandfather rights, with extreme speed limits.

Deltics have been to Oban before....albeit a long time ago.....

so would there be a problem with an 88?

 

[InOban]

Please note I have moved 26 posts relating to the HML upgrade to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/highland-mainline-upgrade.162101

Thanks!

 

[InOban]

Deltics have been to Oban before....albeit a long time ago.....

so would there be a problem with an 88?

Deltics are also RA6. They weigh no more than a 37 and are, like them, co-co. Indeed they may share bogies.

 

[Altnabreac]

Back on topic I took a wee trip along the Shotts line.

Wiring from Midcalder appears to have reached somewhere between Addiewell and Breich.

Breich station is making good progress and looks to me like they’ll be spending considerably less than the closure proposal suggested. Access to the eastbound platform looks to be being taken from the north, avoiding the need for a new footbridge.

Masts appear pretty much complete except for the Cleland cutting, where work is ongoing.

Platform extension and resurfacing work seems to be making good progress as well.

The only remaining problem structure is the footbridge at Hartwood. There seems to be some work ongoing to improve the access to the eastbound platform so it looks like the plan may be to just remove the footbridge completely with no replacement.

All in all the work looks to be well ahead of schedule for a May 2019 completion. Could see the majority being complete by December to be honest.

 

[gingertom]

Deltics are also RA6. They weigh no more than a 37 and are, like them, co-co. Indeed they may share bogies.

according to Wiki Deltics are RA5.

 

[gingertom]

All in all the work looks to be well ahead of schedule for a May 2019 completion. Could see the majority being complete by December to be honest.

that would be a welcome PR boost, something being completed ahead of schedule.

 

[Fougasse]

Back on topic I took a wee trip along the Shotts line.

Wiring from Midcalder appears to have reached somewhere between Addiewell and Breich.

Wiring is paused for the next two weeks for testing and commissioning of the new signalling system.

 

[InOban]

A couple of weeks ago Alex Hynes tweeted that he, wearing his NR hat, was certain Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa would be finished by Christmas, and I think in the same tweet he said March for Shotts.

The lesson for all politicians is that if you allow the professionals the time to plan a proper program of work, then it is likely to be delivered on time, and near enough on budget, unless someone changes the rules. Any attempt to rush the project will cost a fortune and deliver little if any gain. We can only hope that the project team are rewarded with further electrification work.

 

[benbristow]

The passing loop outside Hairmyres looks as though it could be extended quite considerably towards Busby. When the link road to the Eaglesham bypass was being built the bridge over the track was made wide enough for double track and high enough for electrification, hpwever there are many arch bridges on the route that will need attention/replacement. Maybe not so low cost, Hairmyres station would need to have a second platform built and an accessible bridge. It's been 20 years since I was there last and it was really busy back then- I shudder to think what it is like now.

It's still pretty busy now as a daily commuter who gets the train back into Glasgow from Hairmyres at around 5:30pm everyday.

Usually easy enough to get a seat though (usually a table seat too)

 

[InOban]

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/200-job-boost-for-scotlands-railway-1#

Although they're mainly talking about maintenance, it does suggest a degree of confidence. Maybe scogov will be announcing projects soon. Jobs include project management, but no specific projects are mentioned.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A couple of weeks ago Alex Hynes tweeted that he, wearing his NR hat, was certain Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa would be finished by Christmas, and I think in the same tweet he said March for Shotts.

The lesson for all politicians is that if you allow the professionals the time to plan a proper program of work, then it is likely to be delivered on time, and near enough on budget, unless someone changes the rules. Any attempt to rush the project will cost a fortune and deliver little if any gain. We can only hope that the project team are rewarded with further electrification work.

Hear, hear

 

[Aictos]

Apart from the South Sub in Edinburgh, the Borders Railway and the Fife Circle to be wired up at some point, where else in Scotland can be wired up as a follow on project ie convert existing diesel islands to EMU operation?

I know they're wiring to Alloa at the moment however is it possible for them to wire as far as Elbowend Jcn which is near Dunfermline Town so when they do wire up the Fife Circle, they could avoid a small diesel island between Alloa and Dunfermline Town?

Unless it's no longer possible for any trains to go past Alloa these days in the direction of Fife?

I can't comment on Glasgow and the local area as I'm more familiar with Edinburgh and it's own local area.

 

[gsnedders]

Apart from the South Sub in Edinburgh, the Borders Railway and the Fife Circle to be wired up at some point, where else in Scotland can be wired up as a follow on project ie convert existing diesel islands to EMU operation?

I know they're wiring to Alloa at the moment however is it possible for them to wire as far as Elbowend Jcn which is near Dunfermline Town so when they do wire up the Fife Circle, they could avoid a small diesel island between Alloa and Dunfermline Town?

Unless it's no longer possible for any trains to go past Alloa these days in the direction of Fife?

I can't comment on Glasgow and the local area as I'm more familiar with Edinburgh and it's own local area.

The line sees very, very little traffic (the route specification is for 1 train per day). It's the sort of ideal case for the 88's last-mile diesel: mostly low speed (east of Longannet its 35mph, and west to Alloa is mostly 40mph if I'm not mistaken). I can't see there being any financial justification for it unless it starts seeing more traffic.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Longannet line may well be the last unelectrified route in the entire Central Belt. I wouldn't be surprised if wires reached Inverness before they went through there. A short extension of the wires from Alloa to a new terminus station may well happen, but there's never going to be passenger heavy rail services along there again. Any freight would likely go via Stirling and Perth, and the slow crawl along the Forth coast may as well be done by a last-mile engine.

Realistically, the Longannet line is closer to industrial access lines like Dalmellington than it is to the rest of the ScotRail network. It just so happens that it joins up two major sections, rather than being a branch line into nowhere.

 

[deltic08]

Deltics have been to Oban before....albeit a long time ago.....

so would there be a problem with an 88?

Deltics are 99 tons spread over 6 axles. Class 88s are only 4 axles so have a higher axle weight

 

[route101]

Apart from the South Sub in Edinburgh, the Borders Railway and the Fife Circle to be wired up at some point, where else in Scotland can be wired up as a follow on project ie convert existing diesel islands to EMU operation?

I know they're wiring to Alloa at the moment however is it possible for them to wire as far as Elbowend Jcn which is near Dunfermline Town so when they do wire up the Fife Circle, they could avoid a small diesel island between Alloa and Dunfermline Town?

Unless it's no longer possible for any trains to go past Alloa these days in the direction of Fife?

I can't comment on Glasgow and the local area as I'm more familiar with Edinburgh and it's own local area.

Maryhill line , East Kilbride , Barrhead ..

Id say Maryhill may be before EK , rolling stock considerations too . EMUS might be contained on EK or Barrhead services or shared with Cathcart . EK services are interworked with some shotts i think so could be 385s .

 

[route101]

It's still pretty busy now as a daily commuter who gets the train back into Glasgow from Hairmyres at around 5:30pm everyday.

Usually easy enough to get a seat though (usually a table seat too)

Quite often its the trains at the end of peak that are 2 cars , like the 1847 that are full and standing .I usually stick to the airline seats .

 

[Aictos]

Maryhill line , East Kilbride , Barrhead ..

Id say Maryhill may be before EK , rolling stock considerations too . EMUS might be contained on EK or Barrhead services or shared with Cathcart . EK services are interworked with some shotts i think so could be 385s .

Like I said before, I don't know the Glasgow area as well as I do the Edinburgh area however I have a question about the Glasgow South Western line and future electrification of it.

I know that Glasgow Central to Ayr via the Ayrshire Coast line is electrified however if and when Glasgow Central to East Kilburn is electrified could they also wire up the following:

Ayr to Stranraer
Pollokshaws West to Carlisle
Kilmarnock to Barassie

With Ayr to Stranraer if this was electrified as a extension to the existing electrified route, could we see the extension of some Ayr services to Stranraer using faster EMUs?

Equally Pollokshaws West to Carlisle being wired up would be good not only for more eco friendly and faster EMUs but also because it also serves as a diversionary route for VT.

I've included the last option to avoid the creation of a diesel island in Scotland but am open to reasons why they shouldn't and should be electrified from users who are more experienced with the day to day running here.

 

[Stopper]

After EK is wired I think Pollokshaws West to Kilmarnock, not Carlisle, is the only really likely section of track to be electrified on the GSW, and even that isn’t a guarantee.

 

[najaB]

Ayr to Stranraer

Ayr to Girvan makes sense, continuing to Stranraer doesn't.

 

[Stopper]

Ayr to Girvan is still a long long way away. It makes sense, but EK and Killie are definitely ahead of it in the pecking order on the GSW.

Edit - on Barassie to Kilmarnock, it may make sense for ECS moves/operations once EK/Killie are wired, but in terms of passenger service it’s pretty much useless until the wires reach one of (or both of) Girvan and Carlisle.

 

[Altnabreac]

Strathclyde the medium term priorities would be:
Glasgow - East Kilbride
Pollokshaws West - Barrhead
Maryhill line
Barrhead - Kilmarnock

After that you’re into more marginal lines that would probably be behind Fife Circle and the Scottish Intercity schemes. City Union and Kilmarnock - Barassie might both have some stock movement benefits. Ayr - Girvan could make sense as part of a recasting of Stranraer as a shuttle DMU to Girvan. Kilmarnock - New Cumnock might possibly be justified on regeneration grounds and if there were bi-modes operating to Dumfries that could help too.

South of New Cumnock is very long term indeed and almost certainly only on the cards once the entire Scottish network south of Inverness / Craigendoran is wired up. Stranraer would be unlikely ever to see any wires.

 

[najaB]

Stranraer would be unlikely ever to see any wires.

I'd expect Tain to have wires before Stranraer.

 

[Aictos]

Ayr to Girvan makes sense, continuing to Stranraer doesn't.

This is why I said I'm open to debate on this as I've not travelled past Ayr so have no idea to how busy the line may or may not be.

If Transport Scotland did agree to electrify Ayr to Girvan and use a DMU to operate between Girvan and Stranraer then could not bearing in mind the timetable would need to be recasted have the existing XX:00 and XX:31 from Glasgow Central to Ayr extended to Girvan where it would connect with the Stranraer XX:XX shuttle?

Equally can Scotrail do this with their existing EMU fleets or would they need to take on more EMUs, equally how many DMUs would this free up and how many DMUs would they need for the shuttle?

Strathclyde the medium term priorities would be:
Glasgow - East Kilbride
Pollokshaws West - Barrhead
Maryhill line
Barrhead - Kilmarnock

After that you’re into more marginal lines that would probably be behind Fife Circle and the Scottish Intercity schemes. City Union and Kilmarnock - Barassie might both have some stock movement benefits. Ayr - Girvan could make sense as part of a recasting of Stranraer as a shuttle DMU to Girvan. Kilmarnock - New Cumnock might possibly be justified on regeneration grounds and if there were bi-modes operating to Dumfries that could help too.

With the City Union line, only Bellgrove to Shields need to be electrified and is there not plans for a Glasgow Cross Rail using this line?

Could it not be possible if it was wired up to run passenger services again over this line?

As to Pollokshaws West - Barrhead and Barrhead - Kilmarnock would it not make economical sense to wire the above up as Pollokshaws West - Kilmarnock as just one project but starting from opposite ends and meeting in the middle?

 

[najaB]

This is why I said I'm open to debate on this as I've not travelled past Ayr so have no idea to how busy the line may or may not be.

Ayr to Girvan is 1tph, with Girvan to Stranraer 1tp2h (more or less).

 

[Stopper]

Girvan to Ayr is roughly 1tph, not quite though as there can be irregular gaps. I have no idea how busy these services are though.

 

[InOban]

They should at least extend the wires far as the bridge over the A77. A lot of housing, would make a better place to terminate at least some of the Glasgow services.

 

[Altnabreac]

If you were going to do something with Ayr - Girvan it really needs to be along a total route modernisation sort of plan.
New signalling
New station at Belmont in south Ayr
New Park and Ride station alongside the A77 that would also serve Ayr Hospital. Build it with three platforms to allow terminating services (Glasgow semi fast, Ayr Hospital - Glasgow via Kilmarnock)
Electrification
Dynamic loop to allow a 2tph service Girvan - Glasgow extended from fast services.
Extended platform and new signalling at Girvan to allow same platform interchange between EMU and DMU shuttle to Stranraer.

 

[Aictos]

Does Stranraer deserve a hourly shuttle though if it's just running between Girvan and Stranraer?

Could not the Stranraer service be cut back to Ayr with the Ayr terminators extended to Girvan as the Stranraer services could terminate at Ayr on Platform 3 and use the carriage sidings while they await their next working from Platform 3?

 

[Altnabreac]

Does Stranraer deserve a hourly shuttle though if it's just running between Girvan and Stranraer?

Could not the Stranraer service be cut back to Ayr with the Ayr terminators extended to Girvan as the Stranraer services could terminate at Ayr on Platform 3 and use the carriage sidings while they await their next working from Platform 3?

You’d run a two hourly shuttle with a single DMU from Stranraer to Girvan which would also allow you to effectively operate one engine in steam for minimal signalling requirement.

If connected effectively to even an hourly electrified Girvan service extended from the fast Ayrs then you’d still end up with a faster and more frequent Glasgow - Stranraer service than at present.