Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Class 170101]

I am surprised that structure wasn't listed to be honest.

 

[najaB]

By reversing at Dalmeny

Oh, how I wish that the there was a chord at Dalmeny that would remove the need for reversing.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Not directly related and not advertised yet, but there will be a 2 week line closure in July on the Rutherglen-Coatbridge (Whifflet) line for the new viaduct over the M8 at Braehead. Posters on weekend closures in April have recently appeared though.
(See the latest posts on the separate thread on this for more details).

 

[me123]

Not directly related and not advertised yet, but there will be a 2 week line closure in July on the Rutherglen-Coatbridge (Whifflet) line for the new viaduct over the M8 at Braehead. Posters on weekend closures in April have recently appeared though.
(See the latest posts on the separate thread on this for more details).

That'll be fun. The displaced Whifflet passengers will turn to their next nearest line, the North Clyde Line. Which is going to be overcrowded because it's a main diversionary route for E-G traffic. Could have co-ordinated the work a bit better.

I'm a bit disappointed that the Glasgow Central routes aren't getting additional trains to provide some more capacity. The only mention of additional services is off-peak trains via Airdrie. A non-stop run via Shotts would be really helpful to take the loads off elsewhere.

It is essential work, and I think it's a decent plan given just how bad the disruption has to be. But I think it's going to be miserable for many many people. Passengers between Airdrie and Glasgow probably aren't going to get on their trains in the peaks (at least not the ones starting from Edinburgh) - I suspect that most passengers will, at least in the first instance, choose the Airdrie & Bathgate route as their first preference diversion, not least because it goes to the same terminus.

On the plus side, a very good information document that clearly outlines what is happening. I hope every effort is made to get this out to passengers, so that they can think ahead.

 

[overthewater]

Oh, how I wish that the there was a chord at Dalmeny that would remove the need for reversing.

It was claimed that would cost £150million :roll:

 

[adrock1976]

That'll be fun. The displaced Whifflet passengers will turn to their next nearest line, the North Clyde Line. Which is going to be overcrowded because it's a main diversionary route for E-G traffic. Could have co-ordinated the work a bit better.

I'm a bit disappointed that the Glasgow Central routes aren't getting additional trains to provide some more capacity. The only mention of additional services is off-peak trains via Airdrie. A non-stop run via Shotts would be really helpful to take the loads off elsewhere.

It is essential work, and I think it's a decent plan given just how bad the disruption has to be. But I think it's going to be miserable for many many people. Passengers between Airdrie and Glasgow probably aren't going to get on their trains in the peaks (at least not the ones starting from Edinburgh) - I suspect that most passengers will, at least in the first instance, choose the Airdrie & Bathgate route as their first preference diversion, not least because it goes to the same terminus.

On the plus side, a very good information document that clearly outlines what is happening. I hope every effort is made to get this out to passengers, so that they can think ahead.

Also remember the middle of July is the Glasgow Fair holiday Monday, with the Edinburgh Fair Holiday Monday being towards the end of July/beginning of August (to coincide with the start of the Edinburgh Festival).

In peace

Adam

 

[Altnabreac]

It was claimed that would cost £150million :roll:

It will be expensive to do the Dalmeny Chord properly.

Shame it wasn't done before the tunnel closure. Can be fairly sure it will happen in CP6 as it is the only way to add capacity to the south lines at Haymarket which will be required sooner rather than later.

 

[jopsuk]

I thought Dalmeny chord was going to be part of EGIP in conjunction with the new Edinburgh Gateway station? Obviously it would be useful if it already existed for this subproject, but it's a planned thing.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

It will be expensive to do the Dalmeny Chord properly.

Does it look like it will be a diminished or an augmented chord if and when we hear officially?

 

[najaB]

It was claimed that would cost £150million :roll:

I thought it was only a couple of km - surely it can't cost anything more than £10 to 15M.

 

[snowball]

Does it look like it will be a diminished or an augmented chord if and when we hear officially?

Perhaps it's just the lost chord.

 

[CallySleeper]

First East Coast services have appeared in connection with this block.

Saturday 30th May (Aviemore selected)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...0/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GR

Sunday 31st May (Again Aviemore selected)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...1/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GR

The main 'block' starts on 13th June.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I thought it was only a couple of km - surely it can't cost anything more than £10 to 15M.

I believe it involved grade-separating Winchburgh Junction and the new connection to the Fife line. It would have been a nice thing to have for this blockade but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that bad when the E&G passengers can be accommodated on the other three lines between the cities.

 

[Altnabreac]

I thought Dalmeny chord was going to be part of EGIP in conjunction with the new Edinburgh Gateway station? Obviously it would be useful if it already existed for this subproject, but it's a planned thing.

Dalmeny Chord was formerly part of the EGIP project but was removed when the project was rescoped to create extra capacity by providing 4 x 8 car services per hour instead of 6 x 6 car.

Edinburgh Gateway was left in the project but will now only serve Fife, Perth & Dundee bound trains not Glasgow ones.

Technically nothing formerly in EGIP has been cancelled forever but Dalmeny chord is not funded or in current delivery plans.

Does it look like it will be a diminished or an augmented chord if and when we hear officially?

I am not a railway employee so have no specific inside knowledge.

However I'm fairly sure as and when Dalmeny does come back on the agenda it will be similar to before. At the least the Fife lines junction will still require grade separation.

Option 1
If you are carrying out the scheme purely to divert 4tph (+ Freight and Highland Chieftain) of the 6tph Linlithgow - Edinburgh service it may be that you could merely remodel Winchburgh Junction as a double lead junction.

Option 2
If you are wanting to increase from 6tph to 8tph (6tph Glasgow, 2tph Stirling as in original EGIP) you will still need to grade separate at Winchburgh (which is technically an entirely separate worksite from Dalmeny Chord but the schemes are closely interlinked.

It depends if you are doing it to free up capacity on the south lines for Edinburgh - Glasgow High Speed Rail (option 1) or increasing E-G services via Falkirk because High Speed Rail isn't happening (option 2).

Both options still send 2tph over Newbridge viaduct to provide connections to the new Winchburgh Station and Edinburgh Park. The 4tph each way reduction over the flat Newbridge junction is also a big performance benefit.

Option 1 may still need the full GS scheme. Don't think anyone has modelled it yet.

 

[Starmill]

Oh, how I wish that the there was a chord at Dalmeny that would remove the need for reversing.

I thought Dalmeny chord was going to be part of EGIP in conjunction with the new Edinburgh Gateway station? Obviously it would be useful if it already existed for this subproject, but it's a planned thing.

This was proposed - and then scrapped when EGIP was reduced in scope, wasn't it?

Wait a minute ignore me, should have read the post above first!

I find it a tad ominous that they're saying it will be a squeeze to get everyone on and you might not be able to board the first train at intermediate stations on the Airdire - Bathgate route!

 

[Traveller54]

I'm a bit disappointed that the Glasgow Central routes aren't getting additional trains to provide some more capacity. The only mention of additional services is off-peak trains via Airdrie. A non-stop run via Shotts would be really helpful to take the loads off elsewhere.

It is essential work, and I think it's a decent plan given just how bad the disruption has to be. But I think it's going to be miserable for many many people. Passengers between Airdrie and Glasgow probably aren't going to get on their trains in the peaks (at least not the ones starting from Edinburgh) - I suspect that most passengers will, at least in the first instance, choose the Airdrie & Bathgate route as their first preference diversion, not least because it goes to the same terminus.

And I don't think Citylink buses will be a suitable alternative for many, their timings vary from about 1h 15m at quiet times to nearly 1h 40m at peak times, compared with 1h 4m on the faster trains on the Airdrie Bathgate line.

 

[mcmad]

Option 1
If you are carrying out the scheme purely to divert 4tph (+ Freight and Highland Chieftain) of the 6tph Linlithgow - Edinburgh service it may be that you could merely remodel Winchburgh Junction as a double lead junction.

Option 2
If you are wanting to increase from 6tph to 8tph (6tph Glasgow, 2tph Stirling as in original EGIP) you will still need to grade separate at Winchburgh (which is technically an entirely separate worksite from Dalmeny Chord but the schemes are closely interlinked.

Believe that Winchburgh jcn is being renewed like for like prior to the diversions.

 

[edwin_m]

As far as I know the Dalmeny chord isn't needed for EGIP, because in its current version it will have the same number of trains as now although some of them will be longer. The previous version of EGIP would have had more but shorter trains and this may have included the Chord along with grade separation at several junctions. However I do find the various iterations of EGIP quite confusing!

 

[Altnabreac]

Believe that Winchburgh jcn is being renewed like for like prior to the diversions.

Indeed.

To be clear I'm speculating on what might be delivered in CP6.

Ultimately the Dalmeny chord is the only way to increase capacity into Waverley from the west short of boring a new tunnel.

It will happen eventually but it's a case of exactly when it happens.

 

[ADRboy]

The Milngavie fasts via Airdrie are going to be heaving when this kicks off. Already full by Coatbridge at the moment towards Glasgow.

 

[overthewater]

Cant space be found for some direct non stop trains Via Livingston between Edinburgh and Glasgow?

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if the 2 hourly CrossCountry services will be targeted? If anyone can commit to using CrossCountry, a First Class return on them is just £16.90, the Any Permitted being £39.90. In Standard it's £10.90 vs £23.10. (All fares Anytime Day Return).

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder if the 2 hourly CrossCountry services will be targeted? If anyone can commit to using CrossCountry, a First Class return on them is just £16.90, the Any Permitted being £39.90. In Standard it's £10.90 vs £23.10. (All fares Anytime Day Return).

Don't forget the scotrail service via Carstairs 8 coaches maybe?

 

[Altnabreac]

Scottish Government Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011 - Updated Programme Pipeline (January 2015)
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/03/7221/1

Aberdeen - Central Belt rail improvements

Phased programme over period to 2030

Railways in Scotland perform a vital function in providing for commuter traffic into our largest cities, providing the means to transport freight around not only Scotland but further and, through increasing electrification, making a real contribution to our climate change commitments.

Interesting to see explicit mention of electrification to Aberdeen being part of the proposed programme of enhancements in the latest Infrastructure Investment Plan.

Although we knew electrification was planned as part of the STPR outputs I think this is the first time it has explicitly been included in more detailed plans.

Hopefully it will run as far as Inverurie and any redoubling work that takes place in the next few years takes full account of electrification plans.

 

[oldman]

Are they actually saying electrification all the way to Aberdeen? It could mean doubling some of the single track north of Dundee, and electrifying the Fife circle.

The exact same paragraph, with reference to freight and electrification, also appears in the section for Glasgow terminal stations. A bit of unthinking cut and paste perhaps.

 

[clc]

Are they actually saying electrification all the way to Aberdeen? It could mean doubling some of the single track north of Dundee, and electrifying the Fife circle.

The exact same paragraph, with reference to freight and electrification, also appears in the section for Glasgow terminal stations. A bit of unthinking cut and paste perhaps.

I was wondering about that but the Aberdeen-Inverness improvement has the same paragraph minus the reference to electrification.

 

[Altnabreac]

I was wondering about that but the Aberdeen-Inverness improvement has the same paragraph minus the reference to electrification.

Indeed the Highland Main Line improvements section also doesn't mention electrification in the relevant timescale (up to 2025) even though we do know from the STPR that it is intended for eventual electrification.

I'd be confident it means what it says. Aberdeen journey time improvements are a key aim of the transport plan and while the new HSTs will help, electrification is really the medium term solution.

 

[najaB]

Are they actually saying electrification all the way to Aberdeen? It could mean doubling some of the single track north of Dundee, and electrifying the Fife circle.

The only section of single track between Dundee and Aberdeen is at Usan/Montrose. That in itself is probably a hundred million pound project.

 

[overthewater]

One has to wonder if this is more for the Glasgow - Aberdeen route? Since I doubt the Forth bridge can be converted?

 

[najaB]

One has to wonder if this is more for the Glasgow - Aberdeen route? Since I doubt the Forth bridge can be converted?

Why not? It would be quite difficult to run electric trains to the Fife Circle without wiring the bridge.