Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[route:oxford]

Yes it's going to be an inconvenience, perhaps a nuisance, but 'misery'? Journalistic hyperbole, just possibly!

Nope, it is misery. As has it been in recent weekends when passengers have been turfed out at the godforsaken hell that is Falkirk Grahamston to get on buses.

Have you seen the state of the passenger bridge there? It looks like the rust is being held together with bird lime. Not ideal when the buses are dropping off passengers on the station side and they have to pile across to the Northbound side. No lift either.

Before all of this work started, Falkirk should have been sorted out as a four platform station with platforms long enough to accommodate The Highland Chieftain the station itself on the passenger overbridge and lifts to all platforms.

It shouldn't be passengers relying on the goodwill of strangers to help them across bridges.

 

[Class 170101]

Falkirk Grahamston has no space to be expanded on its present site to four platforms. Lengthening the existing platforms may be possible at the Stirling End but its definitely not possible at the Edinburgh end due to the road bridge there.

In terms of rail replacement I recall there is some road space on both sides of the station? As Grahamston is being used as a terminus buses departing towards Edinburgh use the Up Side and those buses coming from Edinburgh terminate on the downside.

 

[route:oxford]

Falkirk Grahamston has no space to be expanded on its present site to four platforms. Lengthening the existing platforms may be possible at the Stirling End but its definitely not possible at the Edinburgh end due to the road bridge there.

In terms of rail replacement I recall there is some road space on both sides of the station? As Grahamston is being used as a terminus buses departing towards Edinburgh use the Up Side and those buses coming from Edinburgh terminate on the downside.

Things might be a bit tight at the Edinburgh End, but the girth and length of the site should mitigate against that quite readily.

 

[me123]

Alternative arrangements in summary:
- Availability of three alternative routes for end-to-end travel.
- Dunblane-Edinburgh services, which I have read somewhere will be lengthened, running via Dalmeny
- Bus links from Linlithgow to Edinburgh Park, and to Haymarket/Waverley (the latter should be able to do many off-peak journeys almost as fast as the via-Dalmeny train).
- Increased ticket acceptance (e.g. travellers from Croy, Lenzie and Bishopbriggs can travel via Queen Street Low Level, and one can travel from Edinburgh Park to Glasgow via Haymarket)

Yes it's going to be an inconvenience, perhaps a nuisance, but 'misery'? Journalistic hyperbole, just possibly!

I doubt it will be "chaos" in the true sense of the word, but I think they could have done a better job in all honesty.

The primary diversionary route will be via Airdrie and Bathgate. Little mention is made of the Shotts and Carstairs lines. People will also preferentially continue using Queen Street over the other stations out of habit. This will be fine off-peak, but in the rush hour it's going to be very crowded. Edinburgh-Glasgow is already 6 cars and busy all the way, and the A-B trains are also six cars and busy (albeit not all the way). I think you're going to see chaos on the low level for the height of the rush hours.

Why not make the "express" A-B trains run non-stop to Airdrie, for example? Not popular with those in Coatbridge (I would have been disadvantaged if this had happened in years gone by), but it will create more space for Edinburgh pax, and the local train is just behind it!

I see no evidence of any extra trains at all on these routes. I would have thought that a non-stop service Edinburgh to Central via Shotts would be attractive, even if only 1tph for the duration of the works - I can't see why there wouldn't be scope to achieve this. Ultimately, very few people going end to end are going to be aware that there are alternatives from Central, and they will undoubtedly turn up at Queen Street for what will be a miserable journey.

It's the people from the intermediate stations on the North Clyde Line who're really going to lose out. Car travel is infeasible for many because of the lengthy journey times on the M8, and low car ownership in the East End. These people are going to see multiple trains pulling in full and standing I reckon, and may well be unable to board - which is very unusual in this part of the world.

I hope Scotrail are going to keep a close eye on travel patterns and adjust its advice accordingly. If the 5:30-ish services from Queen Street do turn out to be as horrible as I imagine they will be, I'd hope there's some thought to directing passengers to Central if there's spare capacity available on those trains.

 

[overthewater]

To be fair I have yet to see a proper full train on the Via Bathgate line yet during off peaks. Of course that is down to the trains having around 6 carriages.

How long would a direct Via Carstairs jct train really taken between Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[me123]

^Of course, Airdrie-Bathgate isn't all that busy all the way. Far from it. But the existing North Clyde and Bathgate sections of the route are busy enough to justify 6 carriages in the rush hour. My concern really comes from my knowledge of loads from Monklands and the East End into Glasgow in the rush hour. These trains are 6 cars and busy already. Add in lots of Edinburgh pax and I genuinely think that people on the North Clydes won't get on their trains in the morning (although there will be at least the 1tph from Airdrie to help matters). Similarly, in the evening, the 17:24 and 17:28 trains to Edinburgh are going to be crush loaded. They're already busy. Add in half an hours worth of Edinburgh pax to that and it's going to be horrible, and passengers across the network are going to see considerable delays.

One of the reasons the A-B trains are so quiet in the new section is that the 6 carriages are needed for the existing sections at either end.

Off peak, I think it'll be busy but manageable.

Via Carstairs, pathing permitting, you're looking at about an hour.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How long would a direct Via Carstairs jct train really taken between Glasgow and Edinburgh

The 2-hourly XC services take as little as 60 minutes (faster than the stoppers/semi-fasts via Bathgate or Shotts).

 

[overthewater]

You would think Scotrail could operate a hourly fast shuttle via this route?

To be fair its the school holidays and there should be plenty of bus replacements in-between, so hopeful many people have taken note?

Isn't there already 6 all stop trains at peak times with half stopping at Airdrie?

 

[Failed Unit]

The biggest disruption so far from EGIP work is about to start, with Winchburgh Tunnel closure starting on 13th June. ScotRail info here - http://www.scotrail.co.uk/winchburgh

The Scotsman, god bless 'em, have showed their usual level of support for any initiative in Scotland. http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/rail-disruption-as-edinburgh-glasgow-work-begins-1-3800179


Alternative arrangements in summary:
- Availability of three alternative routes for end-to-end travel.
- Dunblane-Edinburgh services, which I have read somewhere will be lengthened, running via Dalmeny
- Bus links from Linlithgow to Edinburgh Park, and to Haymarket/Waverley (the latter should be able to do many off-peak journeys almost as fast as the via-Dalmeny train).
- Increased ticket acceptance (e.g. travellers from Croy, Lenzie and Bishopbriggs can travel via Queen Street Low Level, and one can travel from Edinburgh Park to Glasgow via Haymarket)

Yes it's going to be an inconvenience, perhaps a nuisance, but 'misery'? Journalistic hyperbole, just possibly!

I hope we see lengthen Dunblane - Edinburgh trains. My gut feeling is the normal 4 car peak trains with passengers left behind. (Jumping on the Falkirk Herald bandwagon)

Will find out on Monday.

 

[overthewater]

If Scotrail has reduced the number of trains on the Linlithgow - Glasgow side, and there is NO trains between Linlithgow and Edinburgh, where are ALL the extra carriages?

 

[edwin_m]

If Scotrail has reduced the number of trains on the Linlithgow - Glasgow side, and there is NO trains between Linlithgow and Edinburgh, where are ALL the extra carriages?

I would think they ought to be running extra or longer services via Shotts!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would think they ought to be running extra or longer services via Shotts!

Agreed - and Carstairs IMHO.

 

[Failed Unit]

If Scotrail has reduced the number of trains on the Linlithgow - Glasgow side, and there is NO trains between Linlithgow and Edinburgh, where are ALL the extra carriages?

There are trains between Linlithgow and Edinburgh, the diverted Edinburgh - Dunblane service, but agree they will have a lot of spare sets with the reduction of services, probably net 4 sets.

 

[Class 170101]

To reverse via Dalmeny will need extra units as the journey takes an additional 30 minutes.

 

[Failed Unit]

To reverse via Dalmeny will need extra units as the journey takes an additional 30 minutes.

It is only timetabled for 10 extra Dunblane bound, and 15 Edinburgh bound.

Normal off peak.
Edinburgh - Glasgow 8 sets
Edinburgh - Dunblane 6 sets.

Now
Edinburgh - Dunblane needs 8.
Linlithgow - Glasgow needs 4 sets

Double up at peak is where my gain of 4 comes from.

 

[Observer]

The 2-hourly XC services take as little as 60 minutes (faster than the stoppers/semi-fasts via Bathgate or Shotts).

And yet Scotrail didn't bother filling in the hour XC doesn't run which could have been a great problem solver while the Winchburgh works are on. If they couldn't do it themselves I'm sure hiring in a DRS loco and a Mk2 set could have sorted it.

As for Falkirk Grahamston are there plans to replace the bridge there? That'll be a nightmare for road traffic.

 

[me123]

And yet Scotrail didn't bother filling in the hour XC doesn't run which could have been a great problem solver while the Winchburgh works are on. If they couldn't do it themselves I'm sure hiring in a DRS loco and a Mk2 set could have sorted it.

In fairness, I was just looking this up and I've found at least one train extra going from Central via Carstairs. But I only found this by spending quite a bit of time on RealTime Trains - it's fair to say that it's not obvious!

Normally, there is close to 1tph now via Motherwell, as Scotrail have markedly increased the number of services on this route. Having said that, they do take longer as they call at Wishaw as well.

 

[Class 170101]

And yet Scotrail didn't bother filling in the hour XC doesn't run which could have been a great problem solver while the Winchburgh works are on. If they couldn't do it themselves I'm sure hiring in a DRS loco and a Mk2 set could have sorted it.

Remember it could be train crew led. I would be surprised if any Glasgow Queen Street traincrew know the road via Carstairs. Additionally how many of them would know Dalmeny to Haymarket? Therefore probably its mostly Glasgow Train crew covering Linlithgow to Queen Street services releasing Edinburgh crews for the Linlithgow to Edinburgh via Dalmeny section.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The temporary Winchburgh timetable seems to been disrupted today with an engineering train derailment at Croy.
Glasgow-Falkirk/Stirling trains diverted via Cumbernauld. Disruption looks like lasting all day.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

 

[me123]

Will be interested to see what happens tomorrow. Hoping that all goes well, but I can see newspaper stories declaring the whole thing to be "chaos" tomorrow. As I've said already, I really hope Scotrail pay close attention to where the problems lie, encourage people onto quieter trains, and adjust their schedules/calling patterns as needed over the course of the six weeks.

I really don't envy Abellio. They've got to make a good first impression, and that's going be difficult with six weeks of disruptive engineering work on their busiest line!

 

[ADRboy]

Will be interested to see what happens tomorrow. Hoping that all goes well, but I can see newspaper stories declaring the whole thing to be "chaos" tomorrow. As I've said already, I really hope Scotrail pay close attention to where the problems lie, encourage people onto quieter trains, and adjust their schedules/calling patterns as needed over the course of the six weeks.

I really don't envy Abellio. They've got to make a good first impression, and that's going be difficult with six weeks of disruptive engineering work on their busiest line!

The newspapers are already calling it chaos so it's a losing battle ScotRail are facing up here regardless.

 

[Class 170101]

The temporary Winchburgh timetable seems to been disrupted today with an engineering train derailment at Croy.
Glasgow-Falkirk/Stirling trains diverted via Cumbernauld. Disruption looks like lasting all day.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

The map provided for that is wrong and implies that trains to / from Larbet can call at Falkirk Grhamston and then Cumbernauld without reversal.

NRES should go back to the previous editions as they were clearer to read.

 

[route:oxford]

I'm looking at travelling from Dunblane to London during the disaster period. The Chieftain is being re-routed via Fife, so Scotrail are running a bus from Dunblane to Edinburgh at 11:40 to meet with the Chieftain.

Would it be unreasonable to catch the 11:18 to Perth then catch the 11:59 Chieftain from there?

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm looking at travelling from Dunblane to London during the disaster period. The Chieftain is being re-routed via Fife, so Scotrail are running a bus from Dunblane to Edinburgh at 11:40 to meet with the Chieftain.

Would it be unreasonable to catch the 11:18 to Perth then catch the 11:59 Chieftain from there?

I guess the only place to go is East Coast, as ultimately they need to pass the ticket. It looks a very reasonable thing to do but East coast may not think so.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm looking at travelling from Dunblane to London during the disaster period. The Chieftain is being re-routed via Fife, so Scotrail are running a bus from Dunblane to Edinburgh at 11:40 to meet with the Chieftain.

Would it be unreasonable to catch the 11:18 to Perth then catch the 11:59 Chieftain from there?

I would be very surprised if the response was anything other than a compliment for your intelligent planning!

I was impressed and pleased to see that last night (a Saturday, when the last ECML southbound departure from Edinburgh leaves at 19:00), the last train south (an VTEC to Doncaster) was held until passengers from the 18:57 arrival from Milngavie via G. Queen St and Bathgate had time to board. Both the Guard and Driver were standing by their doors with a patient and wistful smile at the expected rush, and a Network Rail CS officer was on the platform to assist incoming connecting passengers to make the connection.
The signal was off, but they had no intention of leaving without picking up pax from Glasgow travelling on the slower Bathgate line.

 

[Starmill]

Is Perth on a permitted route from Dunblane to London? If it isn't, I suspect you'll be told no, you must use the bus.

 

[reb0118]

Why not travel via Glasgow GLQ/GLC then down the WCM?

 

[me123]

It appears to be going OK. This morning apparently fine on the trains, if you believe the Daily Record anyway. Not so good on the roads, mind... people seem happier to be stuck in their cars than go on the slow train through Airdrie... part of me sympathises with that! Even ****ter seems to have generally positive feedback from customers.

Any commuters on here have anything to report (good or bad)?

 

[Failed Unit]

From the central belt into Glasgow all was good. Heading to Edinburgh things were ok as well 5 coach trains on the 2 services I saw. Not sure how Linlithgow coped. Reports the teams were busy with people driving to the park and ride instead. Polmont car park half empty. Very odd when you consider that the journey is only extended 15mins towards Edinburgh and 10 away. I think the doom and gloom has scared everyone away.

One thing I wish scotrail had done is put a train in between the 0659 and 0739 Falkirk- Edinburgh service. 40 minutes is a big gap in the peak. Even if they had kept the clockface timetable all day. Saying that I don't know how that would conflict between Dunblane and Larbert.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think doom and gloom is about right! I for 1 am 1 of that small but signiffhcant band of punters who deliberately avoid the cattletruck conditions on the run via Falkirk, chosing the Airdry Fasts, shots semi fasts or XC. Whilst I continue to hate Voyager travel of any kind, the fact that there 3 quarters empty and fairly eat up the miles on the Via Carstairs run makes it just barable! Also, to those bothering to find out, XC's cheeper!
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Is the Inverness sleaper diverting via Fife also? And is the Chieften being driven by an Edinburgh or Aberdeen man who signs Fife or have Inverness Men route learned?