Scottish Independence

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aictos, 13 Jan 2020.

  1. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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  2. Struner

    Struner Member

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  3. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    No.664 - Next door to the Beast
    We meaning the Welsh, Northern Irish and English.

    Did you not understand I was paying a compliment to the Scots and their often disproportionate contribution to the United Kingdom, not just in politics but science, the arts etc.?
     
  4. Struner

    Struner Member

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    Sorry, no I didn’t. But you’re quite right of course. What would the UK amount to without Scotland? ;)
    So that’s the real reason for the opposition to independence for Scotland. :E
     
  5. Struner

    Struner Member

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    A very good Burns night to all of you!
     
  6. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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  7. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I also think consolidation of conventional frigate/destroyer shipbuilding on the Clyde was purely a political decision. Building the carriers at Rosyth was Hobson’s choice, as they needed the size of the dry dock.

    Closure of the Clyde yards was always just too difficult, but the likes of Swan Hunter, Cammell Laird, and Vosper Thorneycroft weren’t the sole industrial employers in their respective areas.

    I’m sure surface shipbuilding could be re-established somewhere in England if absolutely necessary.
     
  8. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    I think the accusation was less about the choice of Rosyth for the carriers being political it was that building them at all was political as then they would have to be built at Rosyth....which just happened to be in Gordon Browns constituency....
    The Type 31s might end up being assembled in Birkenhead
     
  9. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Which other dry docks could they have been built in?
     
  10. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    Maybe I was unclear.
    Rosyth was the only sensible place to build them.
    But there was an accusation that Gordon Brown only gave the green light to build them at all because if they were they would be built in his constituency.
     
  11. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I understand that, the question was where else could they have been built? Not to you, specifically though.
     
  12. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    They could have built a new dock somewhere
     
  13. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    The "business case" for the carriers was marginal already. Then throw in a half billion pounds or so to replicate already existing facilities...

    Anyone who made that argument needs their head examined.
     
  14. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    All this seems a bit academic. As long as Scotland is part of the UK then Scotland's resources form an integral part of UK defence, including its shipbuilding and deep lochs.

    Should Scotland leave the UK then rUK will build, base and service its military ships within rUK.
     
  15. SWTCommuter

    SWTCommuter Member

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    This article about dry docks that could accommodate the carriers may be of interest.
    https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/dry-docking-the-royal-navys-aircraft-carriers-what-are-the-options/
    Possible alternatives to Rosyth are:
    Inchgreen Dry Dock, Greenock (Cammell Laird)
    Seaton Port, Hartlepool (Able UK)
    Belfast Dry Dock (Harland and Wolff)
    Birkenhead (Cammell Laird)
    Proposed new dry dock at Portsmouth
     
  16. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I believe that the dry dock requirements for construction were quite different to those for maintenance. Could well be wrong though. I suspect that only Harland and Wolf would have been suitable.
     
  17. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    Inchgreen is falling to bits plus the cranes were demolished a few years back.
     
  18. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Also, the dock looks to be about 10m shorter than the ships.

    Edit: Just checked, the quoted length is 305m and width of 45m vs the carriers at 290mx39m - so they could fit, just.
     
  19. Meerkat

    Meerkat Established Member

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    If Rosyth was tricky (50cm clearance below?) as new wont it be
    You have to have space to work on the things!
     
  20. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    It depends on what they want to do. If the clearances aren't there then you'll struggle with getting heavy machinery to the dock bottom. Things like deploy stabiliser fins and removing the propeller shafts becomes impossible.

    As much as I'd like to see work return to the Lower Clyde, it just isn't set up for it anymore. Is there even any machine shops left?
     

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