except S&C trains are often full of grocklesSorry, I just realised that the topic is Settle, Carlisle rather than Leeds, Morecambe although the case I put for the latter would apply to the former.
except S&C trains are often full of grocklesSorry, I just realised that the topic is Settle, Carlisle rather than Leeds, Morecambe although the case I put for the latter would apply to the former.
Try catching the 17.25 from Leeds when the 17.16 Skipton has been cancelled. Rather snug, to say the least.I have made countless journeys on this line between Leeds,Lancaster& Morecambe usually on a two car pacer. Not once have I seen standing passengers on a journey, so what would be the commercial sense for a train operator to limit the number of stopping places. There would be a gain of a few minutes in the journey time which would then probably be added to the terminus layover. No saving of a unit and very little, if any saving on crew times.
I have made countless journeys on this line between Leeds,Lancaster& Morecambe usually on a two car pacer. Not once have I seen standing passengers on a journey
Because that's different, your comparing a lowly regional service to a fast intercity service between major cities, where the stops add a major time penalty
I don't see why stopping at Bingley etc is so unnattractive.
It only adds 6 minutes to the journey time, it isn't as if the S&C is exactly fast anyway with barely 60 mph all the way to Carlisle, stopping at every little village...
no. Just pointing out S&C services are a lot busier than the route via bentham. and much of that extra load is grockles. pity as the bentham route has some quite nice scenery.Doesn't matter what they are full of.
PUBLIC SERVICE.
Are you a person who looks down on others if they do not meet you social criteria?
I am simply asking if there is significant Bingley and Keighley traffic to/from stations beyond Skipton. If not (as I suspect there isn't), why timetable these stops?
OK. I was a nipper when the S&C locals stopped and all except Settle and Appleby closed. I was referring to the situation in late 70's till after the S&C closure thing. Should have been clearer - sorry
When did Crossflats open?
I was on the 1220 ex Leeds to Lancaster and 1515 return today, a 3-car 144, and took note of passengers after Skipton, Gargrave, out, nobody, back, 1 off, Hellifield, out nobody, back 1 on, Long Preston, out, 1 off, back, 1 off, Giggleswick, out, 1 off, 2 on, back, 1 off, Clapham, out 1 off, back 1 off, Bentham, out 2 off, 1 on, back 2 off, Wennington, out, 2 on (who bought returns to London) back, nobody. There were less than 20 of us both ways between Skipton and Lancaster
Shipley is a major interchange station in a densely populated urban area which provides many more connecting services to Forster Square than Keighley or Skipton. It also has connections to Ilkley. So its a no brainier that Leeds - Carlisle/Lancaster services must stop at Shipley.
Shipley is also, in essence, one of Bradford's three "Parkway" stations on different sides of the city, the others being Low Moor and New Pudsey. As such, their main selling point is free car parking.
But if Bradford crossrail were ever to be built, I would advocate running Leeds - Carlisle/Lancaster service via the city centre.
I get the point about local passengers overcrowding long distance services, this being a particular issue on TPE trains between Huddersfield and Leeds. The obvious solution is some sort of fare differential.
most locals beyond skipton will use cars to get to the station. so you could probably lose the long preston stop and the passengers would drive to hellifield or settle/giggleswick.There’s a few people get off at Gargrave and Long Preston on the 1649
I live in that general area. If I go to Leeds I go from Hellifield, even tho I pass stations to get there, there is a caff on the station, parking is fee, and i can get Carlisle or Morecambe trains back. If I go to Carlisle by train, I still go from Hellifield so I get a seat before the mob at settle get on.But why when the train can stop and be useful to passengers. Them passengers might be able to walk home from Gargrave or Long Preston so why make them drive or the extra expense of a bus
The bus actually goes through all 3 villages with several stops in each. where people actually live. Gargrave and Long Preston are out in the country and Hellifield is a long walk from the main road. Im not sure the railway should be providing a bus service in Craven when communites like Ribblehead, Dent, Garsdale and Kirkby Stephen have hardly any buses. Pity the 580 doesnt start at the train station in Skipton.
Having had the experience of working on virtually all S&C services and seeing what they are like, there are only two trains I can think of that this may benefit...
The 0824 Carlisle - Leeds.
Usually full and standing leaving Settle and quite often ends up nearly crush-loaded leaving Skipton. Running this non-stop Skipton - Leeds would stop anyone else from trying to squeeze on to it and thus reduce potential delays on the Aire Valley.
The 1649 Leeds - Carlisle.
Normally crush loaded leaving Leeds with commuters heading to Shipley/Keighley, potentially meaning people travelling north of Skipton are unable to get on. Running non stop would benefit any locals who want to go north of Skipton as they will be able to actually get on board
Its not just Settle though is it. many of the people on those trains are going a long way. I heard someone talking of a trip to Ayr
Out of kings cross there are the locals that go to peterborough and the long distance trains to Leeds/Edinburgh. So do we stop long distance trains at Welwyn garden city, Stevanage, hitchin, biggleswade and hintingdon to relieve pressure on the locals do we?.
Railways have always done long distance services that stop at fewer stations and stoppers. An express Leeds-Skipton then on to carlisle, with a complimentary all stations leeds- skipton service seems quite reasonable
Northern can get plenty of EMU's - there are 319's off lease. or even use 769's on the Leeds-lancaster trains
With the difference in stopping patterns, no.Just looked on realtimetrains for Keighley between 1700 and 1800 tonight
There are 6 trains shown
Are you seriously telling me that you cant do more than 6 trains an hour on a double track railway with modern signalling (or is the constraint Leeds station?)
What are the platform lengths at the 3 stations?
Could a compromise be stopping peak hour long distance services in the rush hours, but omitting them the rest of the time. And stop everything at Keighley - which is a far larger town than Bingley or Shipley
But why when the train can stop and be useful to passengers. Them passengers might be able to walk home from Gargrave or Long Preston so why make them drive or the extra expense of a bus
Just looked on realtimetrains for Keighley between 1700 and 1800 tonight
There are 6 trains shown
Are you seriously telling me that you cant do more than 6 trains an hour on a double track railway with modern signalling (or is the constraint Leeds station?)