Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

[WatcherZero]

Heard the trams are being given the provisional class number of 399/0

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Heard the trams are being given the provisional class number of 399/0

Rather surprised at that, I'd have expected something in the 5xx series due to non-standard electrical equipment... Then again, logic has never really been followed when it comes to numbering!

 

[snowball]

Official notice of application for Tinsley Chord order:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2301335

Transport Acts

The Transport and Works Act 1992

The Transport and Works (Applications and Objections Procedure) (England and Wales) Rules 2006

The Network Rail (Tinsley Chord) Order

NOTICE OF APPLICATION FOR AN ORDER

Network Rail Infrastructure Limited (“Network Rail”) of 1 Eversholt Street, London NW1 2DN and South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (“SYPTE”) of 11 Broad Street West, Sheffield, South Yorkshire S1 2BQ are applying to the Secretary of State for Transport under section 6 of the Transport and Works Act 1992 for the above-mentioned Order under section 1 of that Act.

The Order would authorise Network Rail and SYPTE to construct and operate a short section of tramway and ancillary works at Tinsley, in the City of Sheffield, forming an extension of the South Yorkshire Supertram system to connect the Supertram and Network Rail networks on which tram trains may operate.

The Secretary of State has determined that the application is not to be made subject to an environmental impact assessment.

The application contains a statement that a direction for deemed planning permission is being applied for.

A copy of the application for the Order, and of all plans and other documents submitted with it may be inspected free of charge from 13 March 2015 to 28 April 2015 at the places and at the times set out in the Schedule to this notice.

A copy of the application for the Order, and of all plans and other documents submitted with it, may also be viewed at www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/tinsley-chord/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Official notice of application for Tinsley Chord order:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2301335

Out of interest, what time period has elapsed since the first official notification of this project and the official notification shown above?

 

[MK Tom]

A copy of the application for the Order, and of all plans and other documents submitted with it, may also be viewed at http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improve...tinsley-chord/

There is not a single plan or document on that link!

 

[madannie77]

Out of interest, what time period has elapsed since the first official notification of this project and the official notification shown above?

The initial announcement of the tram-train project (on the Penistone line) was in March 2008.

The switch to a Sheffield - Rotherham scheme was officially made on 15th September 2009, announced by a Transport Minister called Chris Mole

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ham-tram-train-replaces-penistone-scheme.html

 

[snowball]

Out of interest, what time period has elapsed since the first official notification of this project and the official notification shown above?

The notice I linked was published on Friday and indicated that the formal application for an order had been received by the DfT. I suppose whether you count anything before that as official depends on what you mean by official.

 

[unlevel42]

Will the seven new tram-trains be able to operate over the steep sections or will they be restricted to a Parkgate-Cathedral/Station service?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Three of the new vehicles are primarily intended to supplement the existing fleet on the existing network; and all seven are of the same design. So, yes. In any case, one of the steepest sections is by Woodburn Rd, which is on the very section to which you refer.

 

[DimTim]

Detailed plans & documents now available from the link on this page

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/tinsleychord/

I'm aware the new trams are dual voltage - is the whole route to Parkgate to be 750v DC initially?

 

[edwin_m]

I'm aware the new trams are dual voltage - is the whole route to Parkgate to be 750v DC initially?

Yes, but designed to be convertible to 25kV as easily as possible should the need arise.

 

[WatcherZero]

There will also be a short 25kv section in the depot for testing.

 

[34D]

Hmm, just spotted this: http://www.wymetro.com/news/projects/projectdetails/lcrtramtrain/

Leeds City Region is WY plus Barnsley, Selby, Harrogate and Craven. I honestly can't think of a suitable route for tram trains.

Even thinking of routes that come into leeds and are genuinely at capacity I can't think of any that would be feasible to divert to highway tram tracks....

Except maybe maybe Pontefract or Barnsley to Castleford.... continuing on the old rail alignment to Allerton Bywater, thence tramway into Leeds. That is ridiculous though.

 

[snowball]

The context in which I've heard tram-train mentioned is a link to Leeds-Bradford airport. Though part of that would presumably be neither on-street nor conversion of an existing line.

 

[edwin_m]

Update from the Nottingham conference is opening predicted in early 2017. General disgruntlement from most. First vehicle is now complete in Valencia but not arriving in UK until November.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Update from the Nottingham conference is opening predicted in early 2017. General disgruntlement from most. First vehicle is now complete in Valencia but not arriving in UK until November.

And a picture of said unit on Railway Gazette here: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/europe/single-view/view/sheffield-rotherham-tram-train-service-to-start-in-2017.html

 

[snowball]

Item in Rail Technology magazine

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...3&utm_content=D&dm_i=IJS,3H6BI,2L5ZPL,CG51W,1

Network Rail’s head of the delayed £60m tram-train pilot between Sheffield and Rotherham has admitted that design problems have affected the pace of work and the infrastructure picture “isn’t positive”.

Speaking at a panel session at the UK Light Rail Conference in Nottingham yesterday, Simon Coulthard (pictured) said his team is “learning lessons the hard way” but that design and implementation works should be complete by about autumn next year.

The original announcement said the project “will see tram-trains operating between the cities of Rotherham and Sheffield from 2015”, but this has been pushed to early 2017.

“There are a lot of reasons why it has taken us longer to do the design. It is true that we are learning lessons the hard way,” said Coulthard. “I still don’t quite understand why we’ve had three goes at traction power modelling and each time the model was giving us different answers about what the design of the traction power system should be.”

One positive note for the project is that the first unit is now complete and is going through testing in Valencia – it will arrive in the UK in November. The second unit is now in production and will be delivered in early 2016, and then the five other vehicles will be delivered throughout next year.

 

[Haydn1971]

First examples are always going to be plagued with problems - lessons are there to be learnt for future deployments

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is a wonder that a certain Mr A Shooter has not got his hands on the remaining examples of Blackpool Transport old-style single-decker trams and announced that he can produce tram-trains at a third of the cost using old tram bodies..:roll:

 

[edwin_m]

It is a wonder that a certain Mr A Shooter has not got his hands on the remaining examples of Blackpool Transport old-style single-decker trams and announced that he can produce tram-trains at a third of the cost using old tram bodies..:roll:

Certain people have proposed that for the T68s that were withdrawn from Metrolink.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Noticed last week a certain amount of vegetation clearance on the W side of the line N of Rotherham Central, between there and Parkgate, but I suspect it might be to do with drainage works, as there were long plastic pipe sections stacked up there. Unless the pipes are conduits for new electricals? Insider info anyone?

 

[pemma]

Certain people have proposed that for the T68s that were withdrawn from Metrolink.

DfT specifically didn't want to use Metrolink for a tram-train trial because they wanted the trial to include using low floor trams on the heavy rail network.

 

[thenorthern]

This may seem a strange question but are the trams going to have their own dedicated platform at Rotherham Central given that the Supertram cars have much lower platform heights than National Rail platforms.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This may seem a strange question but are the trams going to have their own dedicated platform at Rotherham Central given that the Supertram cars have much lower platform heights than National Rail platforms.

That, of course, will not be a matter of concern for TfGM when tram-train units eventually arrive in their administered area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As I understand it, a low section of platform will be provided beyond the length usually used by heavy rail services.

 

[Haydn1971]

As I understand it, a low section of platform will be provided beyond the length usually used by heavy rail services.

That is correct - only Rotherham station needs platform extension, because the terminus at Parkgate is new and the Tramtrain runs through the existing platform at Meadowhall South

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That is correct - only Rotherham station needs platform extension, because the terminus at Parkgate is new and the Tramtrain runs through the existing platform at Meadowhall South

Another reason this project is far more sensible than the insane "diesel trams to Huddersfield" idea!

 

[Haydn1971]

Another reason this project is far more sensible than the insane "diesel trams to Huddersfield" idea!

Whilst I like the idea of tram-trains, some local authorities are grasping at the idea seeing them as a new "pacer" for local services. Barnsley to Doncaster being one such idea being touted... My view remains, if your running mostly on street or on a tight urban alignment trams are best, tram-trains are great way of cheaply extending tram routes onto short sections of existing heavy rail routes - but if you want to run a rail service between two towns, stick to heavy rail, because light rail doesn't like speeds above 45-50mph - Metrolink to Sale being a prime example of high speed waggle

 

[edwin_m]

Whilst I like the idea of tram-trains, some local authorities are grasping at the idea seeing them as a new "pacer" for local services. Barnsley to Doncaster being one such idea being touted... My view remains, if your running mostly on street or on a tight urban alignment trams are best, tram-trains are great way of cheaply extending tram routes onto short sections of existing heavy rail routes - but if you want to run a rail service between two towns, stick to heavy rail, because light rail doesn't like speeds above 45-50mph - Metrolink to Sale being a prime example of high speed waggle

Dead right, although from what I hear the adjective "cheap" is not one to apply to tram-trains in any circumstances. This much was said at the light rail conference last week.

Even simple trams are more expensive per passenger than trains, so tram-train only makes sense if it is to exploit the extra features of the tram-train by going off the railway.

 

[507021]

Just out of interest does anybody know how long the route between Cathedral and Rotherham Parkgate will be once it's opened?

Thanks in advance