Slight changes you would make to liveries to make them nicer

[Goldfish62]

A Google image search for 'train' suggests that might not be the case.

 

[Goldfish62]

Now that Ash, is a thing of beauty. Never been a fan of yellow fronts. If you're going to have a high visibility yellow front, make it bright yellow so it's still visible in poor light and when the front ends are covered in flies. We were going to experiment with HV yellow on a withdrawn 302 on LTS back in 1995 but Euston House bigwigs put a stop to it before the paint arrived. Innovation was not encouraged in British Rail days. Yet SWR seem to have been allowed to use a brighter shade on their new livery.

The latest standard allows any one of several different shades of yellow.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's a lot of talk about unnecessary premature livery changes just because of a change of franchisee, but is it really that widespread these days? One of the most recent was East Coast, which really was unnecessary. Also we had the irony of TPE becoming wholly First-operated but the removal of the First livery. But are there any other recent examples? FGW changed to GWR mid-franchise, but repaints are only being done when due. SWR repaints only being done when due (at least it appears that way at the moment), also Northern and GTR. We'll have to see if London North Western rush into repaints or whether they'll wait until the new units arrive.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I reckon pale grey/silver would look better and integrate with the colours on the side. Yellow just clashes.

Pale grey...
Hmmm, I can't imagine track workers having trouble seeing that coming over the horizon on a wet afternoon in November...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's a lot of talk about unnecessary premature livery changes just because of a change of franchisee, but is it really that widespread these days? One of the most recent was East Coast, which really was unnecessary. Also we had the irony of TPE becoming wholly First-operated but the removal of the First livery. But are there any other recent examples? FGW changed to GWR mid-franchise, but repaints are only being done when due. SWR repaints only being done when due (at least it appears that way at the moment), also Northern and GTR. We'll have to see if London North Western rush into repaints or whether they'll wait until the new units arrive.

I don't think The First group debrandings were DfT mandated. More that the group realised (about 10 years after everyone else in the country!) that (a) their colours were hideous, and (b) the name "First" had become toxic.

 

[TTA]

This is probably a wider issue, but I miss the yellow stripe on the first class carriages on GWR. Always useful when seeing the train from a distance, and going 'ah, this is in reverse formation!'

 

[DanNCL]

WM trains 172 with more yellow on the front

 

[whhistle]

Ermm.... nah, never mind.

Please, feel free to type it in to your favourite search engine. I chose 'what colour is easiest to see': "Best Answer: Red colour is the easiest to see because of the large wavelength."

<snip>

A well thought out reply - I applaud you
I do agree yellow may be easier to see but IS it easier to see? As I say, why not florescent yellow then? Until there have been a chance for statistics to form, we'll never know but I guess it's been tested, hence the change in requirements.
I just can't accept that even using an extreme example where there's a tiny panel of yellow (some 158's maybe?) is being used as an excuse to keep the yellow fronts.
My eye sight isn't perfect, but I can see a Turbostar headlight a good couple of miles away long before I can see the yellow front, admittedly from the platform level.

 

[najaB]

Please, feel free to type it in to your favourite search engine. I chose 'what colour is easiest to see': "Best Answer: Red colour is the easiest to see because of the large wavelength."

Funny then that the standard was yellow fronts rather than red... you'd almost think there was a reason for that.

 

[DarloRich]

A well thought out reply - I applaud you
I do agree yellow may be easier to see but IS it easier to see? As I say, why not florescent yellow then? Until there have been a chance for statistics to form, we'll never know but I guess it's been tested, hence the change in requirements.
I just can't accept that even using an extreme example where there's a tiny panel of yellow (some 158's maybe?) is being used as an excuse to keep the yellow fronts.
My eye sight isn't perfect, but I can see a Turbostar headlight a good couple of miles away long before I can see the yellow front, admittedly from the platform level.

I cant find the studies i read on safety colouring but will keep looking. Interestingly they weren't ALL black/yellow based. I recall a Belgian one which suggested red and white was best, hence their number plates!

I have no scientific basis for my views and hope the RSSB have tested their view out in the North East on a cold, dark, gray, dreich, winter afternoon rather than just in the ideal conditions offered by a laboratory. Hopefully I will be wrong and there wont be an increase in track worker injuries because we still hurt far too many people in that environment and we don't need to make it any worse.

if it is shown to have no safety impact then i am happy for the front of a train to be painted any colour. If not them keep it yellow until we have a better solution.

 

[alexl92]

I cant find the studies i read on safety colouring but will keep looking. Interestingly they weren't ALL black/yellow based. I recall a Belgian one which suggested red and white was best, hence their number plates!

That’s odd, I can understand with Red and White chevrons but in normal conditions
I find the red letters on white on their plates to be far harder to read than black on white. Interesting though.

 

[AndrewE]

This is probably a wider issue, but I miss the yellow stripe on the first class carriages on GWR. Always useful when seeing the train from a distance, and going 'ah, this is in reverse formation!'

I think that was a UIC (European railway) convention or standard, so that everyone could find (or avoid) 1st class easily. Therefore abandoned in this country at privatisation, so as not to interfere with the thrusting dynamic innovative firms who were going to make everything better simply because they were not BR.

 

[whhistle]

I find the red letters on white on their plates to be far harder to read than black on white. Interesting though.

Ah ha - reading is different to identifying.
Reading any red lettering is harder on nearly any colour than good old black and white combo. But I do like the american standard of white paper actually being a less harsh shade of yellow. PLus, with computer programs taking a dark theme standard these days, I am prefering white on a dark background.

 

[CosherB]

I knew it wouldn't take long for the thread to veer-off into the eternal 'yellow-ends'/'no yellow-ends' debate, modern headlights, track workers, RSSB, black ends on IEPs etc etc. Here we go again.

 

[DarloRich]

I knew it wouldn't take long for the thread to veer-off into the eternal 'yellow-ends'/'no yellow-ends' debate, modern headlights, track workers, RSSB, black ends on IEPs etc etc. Here we go again.

Sorry for that. I guess railway worker safety isn't of interest to everyone. Apologies.

 

[XCTurbostar]

For once its not me Cosher!

 

[jayiscupid]

I prefer BR multiple units to have black Wipac lights

 

[jayiscupid]

and whilst I'm at it, the yellow bib on HSTs should have convex edges not concave.

 

[JaJaWa]

Just adding this as inspiration, the doors on the original Pendolino mock-up livery were certainly “interesting”

 

[class387]

Funny then that the standard was yellow fronts rather than red... you'd almost think there was a reason for that.

London Underground is red.

 

[najaB]

London Underground is red.

Indeed it is. But, while true, it's not really germane to a discussion about yellow fronts for mainline trains.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think the new Virgin Trains livery used on the West Coast Main Line could use a few changes. The final product looks something like a Swiss livery.

View attachment 39768

I watched the latest repainted Pendolino (390009 is it?) sweeping through Macclesfield last night, and I must say that even just the addition of the black window band on that set makes a massive positive difference.

 

[XCTurbostar]

A few from me.

 

[JaJaWa]

A few from me.

The latest internal Azuma mock-up includes a black front end looking very similar to that.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Maybe thats what I was going for

 

[XCTurbostar]

The latest internal Azuma mock-up includes a black front end looking very similar to that.

Here is another more like the Azuma.
Cosher will like this one

 

[class387]

View attachment 39988 View attachment 39989 View attachment 39990 View attachment 39991
A few from me.

The yellowless Pendolino ones look absolutely beautiful. I think I prefer the TPE 68 without a yellow end though.

 

[Rob F]

I prefer BR multiple units to have black Wipac lights View attachment 39964

So do I!!!!!

 

[class387]

Played around with an idea for a Thameslink livery with darker grey, which I think looks quite nice. Unfortunately I have no access to Photoshop at the moment so will probably remake it when I do, but it shows the concept.

 

[Clansman]

The yellowless Pendolino ones look absolutely beautiful.

I second that. Looks bloody marvelous.