Solution reached to save Day Travelcards

[TrenHotel]

Mod note: Continuation of https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfl-proposes-to-withdraw-day-travelcards.247184

BBC London's transport editor Tom Edwards says a deal has been done to save them.

https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/1716757634009677922

BREAKING: Daily travelcards have been saved after agreement between City Hall & Rail Delivery Group. Source close to the Mayor: “There’s been a lot of back and forth between TfL, Rail Delivery Group and Government in recent weeks and a good compromise has been found.”

 

[Joe Paxton]

BBC London's transport editor Tom Edwards says a deal has been done to save them.

https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/1716757634009677922

(Here's a better link, which allows you to read the thread of X/Twitter posts without needing to log-in.)

If correct, this is great.

What an absurd level of brinksmanship it took to get to this point... and I do point the finger at central government for being obstinate and bloody minded, rather than TfL (and the Mayor) for holding their ground after being squeezed so tightly.

 

[Kite159]

Great news

 

[1D54]

So pleased with this fantastic news.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do we have any insight as to what the agreement is, i.e. has the Government provided funding so they'll carry on as they were, or will the price increase? Better to have them more expensive than not at all, of course.

 

[jon81uk]

I wonder if this will still result in some price changes to standardise them? As there are some routes into London where the difference between the fare and the fare as a travelcard is minimal and other routes where it is roughly the same as the fare plus the cap.

 

[SWT_USER]

Great news. Sure there will be a price increase but still going to be worth it with the Railcard discount as my nearest TFL station is Heathrow T4.

 

[Non Multi]

Pessimistic view: Compromise = likely hike in price. As the contactless fares are capped to the Travelcard rates, everyone gets the fare increase.

 

[DailyCommuter]

The Evening Standard have covered here: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...ort-for-london-tfl-trains-fares-b1115574.html

"However the cost of the one-day Travelcard, which offers train passengers unlimited travel on the Tube and London bus network, will increase by a “small amount” to help cover its costs."

 

[jon81uk]

Pessimistic view: Compromise = likely hike in price. As the contactless fares are capped to the Travelcard rates, everyone gets the fare increase.

There shouldn't be any reason why the undiscounted travelcard fare isn't the same price as a ticket from station to boundary zone 6 plus the TfL 1-6 cap. I don't expect the cap to go up, but I do expect travelcards to.

 

[MikeWM]

Excellent news - assuming that when we get the full details it is effectively 'no change to anything, except it will cost an extra quid or two'.

TfL will make a lot more money out of me this way than by withdrawing Travelcards, so good news for them too I guess!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Suspect that we'll see quite a few tweaks and hikes to some of the really cheap avoid zone 1 type pay as you go fares and I know that there's already been changes announced to rates for the likes of 11 to 16 photo zip card oyster holders in the prices they paid to use trains and tubes,

Also wouldn't surprise me if things like bus only or bus and tram pass oyster seasons went up a little to again let down the pressure in the treasury a bit, but it really was a complete move to Oblivion to abandon the day travel card product and indeed going forward it could be given a new lease of life when TFL finally jump forward into the next century and introduce barcode or app based or indeed both ticketing so that these products can be used in a more up-to-date way along with potentially finding a way to associate railcards with contactless payment methods but I know that's a harder nut to crack because of card security and gdpr to say the least so yes definitely a happy camper here

 

[Mike395]

This is (cautiously) excellent news - no issue with rebalancing (and hopefully standardising - it's a good opportunity to do so) the price of the add-on portion vs the rest of the ticket, within reason. I suspect/hope this means a couple of £s on the majority of Travelcards, but no other changes.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Excellent news.

Will the outboundary cards still be available in paper format, at least until the expansion of contactless systems is complete?

 

[planetf1]

Good news (and somewhat surprising?), but I guess for me it will come down to what the 'small increase' is. It's about £5 less for a travelcard than return+z1-2 daily cap (more for other zones). My guess is a £1-2 increase.

 

[crablab]

I'm pleased if this is the outcome, although the devil will be in the detail.

I wrote several letters to elected representatives on this topic, and I know other members did likewise. I do think that without the attention this has received, maybe the outcome would have been different.

 

[MikeWh]

Excellent news.

Will the outboundary cards still be available in paper format, at least until the expansion of contactless systems is complete?

I'd say so. Contactless isn't due to expand to the whole Network Railcard area.

 

[Sultan]

Great news. That's 1 down. Now for the staffed ticket offices.

 

[winks]

Probably an extra £1 on top for 2024?

 

[AY1975]

Excellent news - assuming that when we get the full details it is effectively 'no change to anything, except it will cost an extra quid or two'.

I would hope so. Although the story from the Evening Standard linked from entry #9 above doesn't explicitly say so, it seems to imply that both the outboundary version and the One Day Travelcard for travel wholly within the TfL zonal area (i.e. the in-boundary version) will remain.

There is also the question of whether railcard discounts will still be available for both in-boundary and outboundary versions, and whether there will still be both the Zones 1-6 and the Zones 1-9 version of the in-boundary Travelcard (and Zones 1-4 in the case of Peak/Anytime Travelcards). Of course, not all that long ago there were also Zones 1-2 and 1-4 versions of the Off-Peak Travelcard, but I don't see either of those ever returning.

 

[mike57]

Good news.

As an occasional (few days per year) visitor to London I like the idea of the travel cards. The tapping in and out, and remembering to do it, and the need to do it at some interchanges, is just too much for an occasional traveller. Paper or smart card ticket purchased in advance is a much preferred solution. As an occasional traveller I am not going to be particularly price sensitive, if they cost a pound or two more it won't make me change how I buy my onward tickets for London.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I'd say so. Contactless isn't due to expand to the whole Network Railcard area.

This really is great news! Made My Day!
My one slight worry is that part of the deal will be that you can't use Network Railcards to get the 1/3 Discount. If so then I shall be using a combo of NSE OPDR To the Boundry (In my case Watford Jct) and Oyster Onwards as it'll be Cheaper to the tune of something like £8.50....
I suspect that a lot of people who travel from the very outer Stations of Network Railcard Land (Like Me) may come to this same conclusion....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say so. Contactless isn't due to expand to the whole Network Railcard area.

Contactless isn't, but most of the South East is now set up for ITSO, I seem to recall it being said that most or all outboundary Travelcard seasons are now issued on ITSO, not paper. We shall see on that one, but if TfL wants to save on maintaining magstripe readers then making them ITSO only doesn't seem too terrible an idea, putting a ticket on ITSO is no harder than buying a paper one, and it carries the exact same validity as a paper one.

But we shall see, I'm sure it will become clear in due course.

 

[Haywain]

The tapping in and out, and remembering to do it, and the need to do it at some interchanges, is just too much for an occasional traveller.

That really is overstretching the complexity of the situation. It's very little different to what you do with a paper ticket.

most or all outboundary Travelcard seasons are now issued on ITSO,

Can be, rather than are, and unfortunately spoiled by the complexity of needing the 'right' ITSO card if bought online. To say nothing of certain variations of Travelcard currently sold by some TOCs.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Contactless isn't, but most of the South East is now set up for ITSO, I seem to recall it being said that most or all outboundary Travelcard seasons are now issued on ITSO, not paper.

In-boundary Travelcard Seasons (including Zones 1-9) have only been available on ITSO or Oyster since 1st June 2022.

No date has been set for withdrawal of paper Day Travelcards yet, though most (with the possible exception of Family Travelcards) could be enabled for Smartcard sale if they aren't already.

 

[fkofilee]

So they sold 14 million of these last year if I remember rightly from stats quoted? (Could be true)
That means to break even with a bit of overhead, it would need to go up by £3 on average (Quoting the £40 million it cost etc?) - Id prefer that rather than going from £10 with NSE on Super Off Peak TL Z1-6 from Gatwick Airport all the way up to contactless PAYG being £23.50 Off Peak.

Result for us here. I know I am very happy.

(All stats quoted are rough averages used by media etc so please dont hang me for it )

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wonder what the small print will be. The Evening Standard article refers to small price rises, my interpretation is this will refer to the in-boundary Travelcard.

I wonder what we’ll see for the out-boundary Travelcard, as these were where TfL’s real issue was. In particular whether TfL’s revenue share will be higher and whether the TOCs will pass this on to passengers.

 

[richa2002]

Excellent news. Would happily pay a bit more to retain the total flexibility a Travelcard offers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Excellent news. Would happily pay a bit more to retain the total flexibility a Travelcard offers.

Hopefully Railcard discounts stay. Otherwise I can't see that I'll ever use one.

 

[jon81uk]

Probably an extra £1 on top for 2024?

Don't think its that simple, as on some routes the outboundary travelcard is cheaper than normal fare to zone 6 or London, plus cap and on others it is more expensive. On my journey the anytime travelcard is more expensive, and the off-peak it can be cheaper . But I know on some south routes the difference between fare to London and a travelcard is tiny.