Solution reached to save Day Travelcards

[Krokodil]

That really is overstretching the complexity of the situation. It's very little different to what you do with a paper ticket.

But with the key difference that forgetting to tap in at a non-barriered station will get you stung for an incomplete journey, or may lead to a run-in with an RPI. With a travelcard you have also paid upfront and don't need to work out what you need to budget for during the day.

 

[gravey]

Ian Visits is reporting that it will be an average of 3% rise.

London’s Day Travelcard saved from extinction: New deal secures its future

The Day Travelcard, which offers visitors to the Capital unlimited travel on TfL services and National Rail services within London, won't be scrapped after a deal was secured to keep it.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The RDG site is quoting 3% as the average rise in National Rail-purchased day travelcard tickets, from March 2024.
https://media.raildeliverygroup.com...-to-save-day-travelcards-for-train-passengers

The proposal also includes a one-off price increase on Day Travelcards for travel from stations outside Zones 1-6 as part of a National Rail ticket from March 2024 (on average 3%) which will be in addition to any general regulated fares increase at the time.

That suggests travelcard ticket prices will increase by less than £1, unless the TOC wants to earn more than the extra TfL cut.

 

[mike57]

That really is overstretching the complexity of the situation. It's very little different to what you do with a paper ticket

Probably not, and I am not a technophobe, but its one less thing to think about when travelling around areas that are unfamiliar

 

[MikeWM]

Probably not, and I am not a technophobe, but its one less thing to think about when travelling around areas that are unfamiliar

Indeed - the other options are all well and good (a) if you're comfortable with the 'blank cheque' approach to transactions (which I'm not), and (b) things are going well. But if eg. you're stuck on the platform at Wembley Central for an hour due to trespassers stopping all the trains, as I was on Saturday, what does that mean if you're travelling on Oyster or contactless? I don't know, and I don't want to have to know, it was annoying enough without having to worry about what I would be charged and/or whether I'd have to try to claim back money later.

I'll be sticking to travelcards, and very pleased indeed I'll be able to do so. No objection whatever to a 3% rise, they're very good value.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder what we’ll see for the out-boundary Travelcard, as these were where TfL’s real issue was. In particular whether TfL’s revenue share will be higher and whether the TOCs will pass this on to passengers.

I suspect those outboundary locations where the price differential had increased considerably making these tickets particularly relatively cheap - such as from the South Coast - will be finding the fares will rise to match the standard elsewhere, i.e. the price of a return to the boundary plus the Travelcard element.

Which, to me, is a logical move.

 

[MikeWM]

I suspect those outboundary locations where the price differential had increased considerably making these tickets particularly relatively cheap - such as from the South Coast - will be finding the fares will rise to match the standard elsewhere, i.e. the price of a return to the boundary plus the Travelcard element.

Out of interest, what is the current average fare for the Travelcard part?

A quick skim of a few fares for around here shows the travelcard differential at:

Cambridge : GA-only weekend : £5.80, any permitted weekend : £7.90, any permitted off-peak weekday : £9.70

Ely : any permitted weekend : £8.10, any permitted off-peak weekday : £9.60

Kings Lynn : Any permitted weekend : £7.80, any permitted off-peak weekday : £8.30

which all seems a bit scattershot, but GA-only fares apart, around £8 at weekends and £9 weekdays.

Is that typical?

 

[jon81uk]

With a travelcard you have also paid upfront and don't need to work out what you need to budget for during the day.

Easy to budget on Oyster/contactless too, it’s never more than £14.90 for zones 1-6.

 

[Haywain]

Easy to budget on Oyster/contactless too, it’s never more than £14.90 for zones 1-6.

And with these, you may pay less!

 

[1D54]

Easy to budget on Oyster/contactless too, it’s never more than £14.90 for zones 1-6.

Makes life so much simpler for the enthusiast though who hasn't got to worry about time spent on stations without the need to go tapping in/out in case suspicious travel patterns may arise.

 

[jon81uk]

Makes life so much simpler for the enthusiast though who hasn't got to worry about time spent on stations without the need to go tapping in/out in case suspicious travel patterns may arise.

Which is a minuscule amount of passengers.

 

[Haywain]

Which is a minuscule amount of passengers.

And disproportionately represented on these forums.

 

[infobleep]

This is (cautiously) excellent news - no issue with rebalancing (and hopefully standardising - it's a good opportunity to do so) the price of the add-on portion vs the rest of the ticket, within reason. I suspect/hope this means a couple of £s on the majority of Travelcards, but no other changes.

I wonder if it will mean all tickets rise by a small amount but no other changes.

So a cheap ticket is still cheap and a more expensive one is still more expensive.

Doing a percentage increase across the board would be faster and less time-consuming.

 

[RJ]

That really is overstretching the complexity of the situation. It's very little different to what you do with a paper ticket.

The feedback I’ve had from customers who buy Travelcards, which is about 90% of ticket sales at my rural perch is that they are put off from using Oyster/CPC for good because of incomplete journey charges.

Given over 2 million journeys annually are incomplete (source), quite a few people would seem to struggle with touching in and out. Validation requirements do add a layer of complexity to travel and some people are happy to pay extra for the peace of mind paying a fixed price offers.

 

[fandroid]

A major part of the deal almost certainly concerns the split of revenues between the TOCs and TfL, and not so much about the overall prices charged. TfL knew that the TOCs were likely to lose out if Outboundary Day Travelcards were abolished so it was just a matter of waiting for RDG/DfT to do the sums and come back with a sensible compromise.

Good news for me personally. Having gone over to using an ITSO smartcard for Day Travelcards, after too many wiped magstripe incidents with paper versions, I can look forward to carrying on beyond January.

 

[infobleep]

I wonder what the small print will be. The Evening Standard article refers to small price rises, my interpretation is this will refer to the in-boundary Travelcard.

I wonder what we’ll see for the out-boundary Travelcard, as these were where TfL’s real issue was. In particular, whether TfL’s revenue share will be higher and whether the TOCs will pass this on to passengers.

The government take the revenue risk and not the TOCs.

 

[johncrossley]

Contactless isn't, but most of the South East is now set up for ITSO, I seem to recall it being said that most or all outboundary Travelcard seasons are now issued on ITSO, not paper. We shall see on that one, but if TfL wants to save on maintaining magstripe readers then making them ITSO only doesn't seem too terrible an idea, putting a ticket on ITSO is no harder than buying a paper one, and it carries the exact same validity as a paper one.

GTR used to (and may still) have a problem with some of the weekend only Travelcards being paper only. The weekday versions are on ITSO. Also, as far as I know, GTR don't offer ITSO loading through an app like other TOCs do. You had to load the ticket onto ITSO at the ticket machine.

 

[AndrewE]

The government take the revenge risk and not the TOCs.

What is "revenge risk?"

 

[Mike395]

GTR’s super off peak Travelcard products (both weekday and weekend variants) weren’t enabled for ITSO fulfilment in RCS last time I checked, at least not from Bedford.

 

[infobleep]

That suggests travelcard ticket prices will increase by less than £1, unless the TOC wants to earn more than the extra TfL cut.

The government take the revenue and TOCs are paid a management fee.

What is "revenge risk?"

I meant revenue. Now corrected.

GTR’s super off-peak Travelcard products (both weekday and weekend variants) weren’t enabled for ITSO fulfilment in RCS last time I checked, at least not from Bedford.

Does anyone know why this is? Don't have time to implement it, system can't cope, want to get rid of it by stealth?

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know why this is? Don't have time to implement it, system can't cope, want to get rid of it by stealth?

Smartcard systems at gatelines are not compatible with an extra set of restrictions.

 

[Cletus]

Good news, even with a within reason increase.

Something that confuses me travelling from Dover Priory to St Pancras on a Saturday.
From NRE, with Network Railcard.
£25.90 return, add Travelcard it becomes £37.45
So I'll just buy a Travelcard separately on arrival for £10.00

Why is that when I've been reading on here and seen on Geoff Marshall's video that adding a Travelcard to a "day return" is usually a smaller amount than the costs of the Travelcard?

 

[JonathanH]

From NRE, with Network Railcard.
£25.90 return, add Travelcard it becomes £37.45
So I'll just buy a Travelcard separately on arrival for £10.00

That is because the £25.90 is a super off peak day return, and the £37.45 is an off peak day travelcard.

There is different validity during the week, but not at the weekend. However, there isn't a travelcard equivalent of the super-off peak day return on that route. The relevant off-peak day return costs £34.25.

 

[Cletus]

That is because the £25.90 is a super off peak day return, and the £37.45 is an off peak day travelcard.

There is different validity during the week, but not at the weekend. However, there isn't a travelcard equivalent of the super-off peak day return on that route. The relevant off-peak day return costs £34.25.

Thanks. I was half expecting there to be something "Super" about it.

 

[Kite159]

That is because the £25.90 is a super off peak day return, and the £37.45 is an off peak day travelcard.

There is different validity during the week, but not at the weekend. However, there isn't a travelcard equivalent of the super-off peak day return on that route. The relevant off-peak day return costs £34.25.

I think a similar thing occurs from some SWR stations where there is a "Super Off-peak Return" as the cheapest point to point ticket (although only valid at certain times, but all-day on Sundays) but the only Travelcard option is an Off-peak Day travelcard, which in the case of Andover is an extra £18.50 [£55.50 where the point to point is £37.00] [https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=ADV&dest=WAT&period=20231001]

Although in the case of SWR, some cases can be made cheaper by splitting at Basingstoke where there is a "Super off-peak Travelcard" available [although the "Sunday Out" Travelcard never seems to works barriers at London Overground stations for some reason].

 

[CyrusWuff]

Out of interest, what is the current average fare for the Travelcard part?

I think it's around £5.60 on top of the fare to London Terminals for Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak, and £8.00 for Anytime.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The government take the revenue and TOCs are paid a management fee.

Yes, but the TOCs actually make the fare changes, presumably with the approval of DfT.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think a similar thing occurs from some SWR stations where there is a "Super Off-peak Return" as the cheapest point to point ticket (although only valid at certain times, but all-day on Sundays) but the only Travelcard option is an Off-peak Day travelcard, which in the case of Andover is an extra £18.50 [£55.50 where the point to point is £37.00] [https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=ADV&dest=WAT&period=20231001]

Although in the case of SWR, some cases can be made cheaper by splitting at Basingstoke where there is a "Super off-peak Travelcard" available [although the "Sunday Out" Travelcard never seems to works barriers at London Overground stations for some reason].

I’m sure all the SWR super Offpeak returns used to come with a travelcard version before 2020, I used them regularly from Winchester or Eastleigh. Perhaps with the cheapest longer distance super Offpeak fares not allowing much of the whole day in London the demand wasn’t there? I don’t think it’s ever been questioned or explained in these forums, perhaps someone knows the reasoning?

 

[David Goddard]

Excellent news! I always buy a travelcard when going up to London as its so straightforward and good value.
I had started to pen a proposal for a NR only Day Ranger replacement but wont need to do that now either!

 

[Hadders]

This is good news and shows that people in charge will listen if enough of a fuss is made int he right way.