Southeastern High speed train driver, Faversham, Ashford & Ramsgate

[387star]

Blimey, I've never been to any of those towns but I certainly won't now! Sounds awful down there!

Rochester is lovely but I understand Gillingham and Chatham have very bad reputations on a par with Luton. Thameslink works wonders at connecting a lot of places which are often perhaps unfairly derided

 

[387star]

Luton a swear word ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ke...uth-chathams-notorious-luton-road-3291856.amp

 

[SlimJim1694]

Only HS cab pass holders may travel on the HS part of the route in the cab.

I know because I asked at the open day.

Thats not true. I've route refreshed in the cab of 395s a number of times with just a normal roads ticket.

I'd also point out that officially the HS driver salary is exactly the same as a normal drivers rate but they get a permanent enhancement which puts an HS driver on the same rate as a normal driver instructor. They can also do ten hour diagrams on high speed while normal drivers have a maximum 9 hours 15. As has been pointed out above, if these high speed jobs are so prestigious why can't they fill them with the countless drivers already at the same depots working normal trains for three grand less? The answer should be obvious.

 

[whoosh]

Yes the maximum duty length is greater on High Speed. I expect this was agreed when they contained greater periods of high speed running, but with the rounder services there are a lot of stops now.
I believe the extra enhancement is about £3,100 on top of the regular salary, but I don't think that enhancement has been increased for a long time. Like YEARS and YEARS. It's not a dynamic enhancement (one that increases in line with any salary % increase), but fixed. And fixed it's certainly been!

 

[bramling]

Rochester is lovely but I understand Gillingham and Chatham have very bad reputations on a par with Luton. Thameslink works wonders at connecting a lot of places which are often perhaps unfairly derided

Have to say this post has just cracked me up! However, I wouldn’t say Chatham, Gillingham and Rainham are quite as bad as Luton.

Returning to the main thrust of this thread, an interesting set of posts for sure. Outwardly one would think of HS1 work as being quite decent, but reading through this thread clearly this is very much not the case.

 

[cossie4i]

Yes the maximum duty length is greater on High Speed. I expect this was agreed when they contained greater periods of high speed running, but with the rounder services there are a lot of stops now!

It was agreed at the inception of the service so Faversham Drivers could do 3 return trips to St Pancras.

 

[notadriver]

Thats not true. I've route refreshed in the cab of 395s a number of times with just a normal roads ticket.

I'd also point out that officially the HS driver salary is exactly the same as a normal drivers rate but they get a permanent enhancement which puts an HS driver on the same rate as a normal driver instructor. They can also do ten hour diagrams on high speed while normal drivers have a maximum 9 hours 15. As has been pointed out above, if these high speed jobs are so prestigious why can't they fill them with the countless drivers already at the same depots working normal trains for three grand less? The answer should be obvious.

If you haven’t been passed in HS1 rules you are not allowed in the cab on HS1. You are still permitted in the cab on network rail lines.
10 hour diagrams ? That’s a load of nonsense. I’ve seen them.

 

[Val3ntine]

If you haven’t been passed in HS1 rules you are not allowed in the cab on HS1. You are still permitted in the cab on network rail lines.
10 hour diagrams ? That’s a load of nonsense. I’ve seen them.

Gosh you’re a little bit annoying lol. Why are you arguing with drivers on a topic concerning drivers?

 

[SlimJim1694]

• You obviously know a lot more about it than me. I must have imagined they have max 10 hour diagrams. All those high speed drivers whingeing like **** about it must be lying. I guess the company are also fabricating the incidents that we keep hearing about high speed drivers having. I bow down to your superior knowledge and accept that I am indeed talking "nonsense".

 

[ComUtoR]

Max day on HS1 is 9hr 30mins and is clause 3.1 in the terms and conditions. Metro and Mainline have a 9hr 15min maximum day.

 

[SlimJim1694]

9hrs 30. I knew it was longer than normal se drivers. Just looked it up myself. Thanks for confirming this. They also work boxing day on hs, its triple time or double time and a day off in lieu.

 

[whoosh]

I'd also point out that officially the HS driver salary is exactly the same as a normal drivers rate but they get a permanent enhancement which puts an HS driver on the same rate as a normal driver instructor. They can also do ten hour diagrams on high speed while normal drivers have a maximum 9 hours 15. As has been pointed out above, if these high speed jobs are so prestigious why can't they fill them with the countless drivers already at the same depots working normal trains for three grand less? The answer should be obvious.

Apparently, if you are an Instructor on High Speed you do it for free as the company won't give both enhancements (High Speed and Instructor's allowances)!

I think the maximum duty used to be 9h30 conventional and 10h00 high speed, but they've both been reduced to 9h15 and 9h30 respectively.


Is this the time to point out that GTR's Thameslink has a maximum turn length of 9h54?! Not sure I'd like doing Rainham to Luton all day, but they do have better pay and conditions generally, even if not that particular condition.

 

[SlimJim1694]

I think the maximum duty used to be 9h30 conventional and 10h00 high speed, but they've both been reduced to 9h15 and 9h30 respectively.

That would explain where I got the ten from. I was convinced they did ten. Being just a non-prestigious "classic" driver I don't pay massive heed to changes in their t&c's so must have missed it. Crazy they dont pay instructors more. I think the east Kent depots have a bit of a geographical hold over their drivers as there's not much else around there, whereas the ones nearer London are finding the poor pay and conditions are causing drivers to look elsewhere for work - eg: Thameslink, Virgin etc.

 

[notadriver]

9hrs 30. I knew it was longer than normal se drivers. Just looked it up myself. Thanks for confirming this. They also work boxing day on hs, its triple time or double time and a day off in lieu.

There you see they don’t work 10 hours. I don’t believe they worked Boxing Day in 2019 either.

 

[notadriver]

1. You’re a bus driver trying to give advice to qualified train drivers and you have been ill informed, make assumptions or quite frankly make stuff up.

I’m proud to be a bus driver and I haven’t made anything up unless you can prove me wrong.

 

[Class2ldn]

Just working for southeastern would put me off lol

 

[theking]

How much do they get.
What's the longest they stay in the chair for one trip before a turnaround
How many stops do they do.

I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's worse work than metro southern or arl.

Yes it might not be as easy as guarded se services to the coast but it's got to be better than 100+ stop short signal section metro work.

 

[43066]

I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's worse work than metro southern or arl.

Not as bad as all shacks metro work, but for qualified, established drivers looking to move it would be a step down from fully guarded work (and, even if that wasn’t an issue, they pay less money than most pay for DOO work these days).

This is why it’s surprising SE don’t open it up to DOO drivers at metro depots looking to move to the coast (there are loads of them).

For an external driver desperate to relocate to that part of Kent it might be the only option - the SE “classic” coastal depots are “dead man’s shoes” and hardly ever/never take externals.

They get £3kish more than classic drivers at the same locations, but that clearly isn’t enough of an incentive for drivers to move from classic to HS1 these days.

 

[SlimJim1694]

There you see they don’t work 10 hours. I don’t believe they worked Boxing Day in 2019 either.

I've accepted I made a mistake saying they worked ten hours. They used to work ten but now its nine and a half. I work on metro amd haven't paid much interest in the conditions of high speed drivers since it started because its something I wouldn't do. I know a guy who went there the other year and doesn't like it now the novelty has worn off and they have to do rounders. For a bus driver you seem to know a lot about train drivers jobs. I'll be the first to admit I know SFA about driving buses and care even less. Maybe you'd be better off going up as a train driver if it interests you. I know the money and conditions are a lot better than the buses - even on SE!

 

[whoosh]

Not as bad as all shacks metro work, but for qualified, established drivers looking to move it would be a step down from fully guarded work (and, even if that wasn’t an issue, they pay less money than most pay for DOO work these days).

This is why it’s surprising SE don’t open it up to DOO drivers at metro depots looking to move to the coast (there are loads of them).

For an external driver desperate to relocate to that part of Kent it might be the only option - the SE “classic” coastal depots are “dead man’s shoes” and hardly ever/never take externals.

They get £3kish more than classic drivers at the same locations, but that clearly isn’t enough of an incentive for drivers to move from classic to HS1 these days.

I think they've enough problems with drivers at Metro depots moving to other companies, without adding to their woes with self-inflicted things like letting them move to HS1 coastal depots!

 

[43066]

I think they've enough problems with drivers at Metro depots moving to other companies, without adding to their woes with self-inflicted things like letting them move to HS1 coastal depots!

SE are “penny wise, pound foolish” in this respect.

They are always going to lose drivers from the metro depots because of the nature of the work (let’s face it, anyone who has experienced the grind of DOO metro work knows why you’d want to get away from it).

But by paying so far below market salaries that drivers are deserting en mass for TOCs like GTR/ARL (similar work, a lot more money) and even freight (a little more money, but far worse shifts, T’s and C’s etc.), that suggests something has gone seriously wrong.

 

[notadriver]

I think they've enough problems with drivers at Metro depots moving to other companies, without adding to their woes with self-inflicted things like letting them move to HS1 coastal depots!

A lot of HS drivers are ex SET metro drivers. There is nothing to stop them applying. I’m sure it would have been advertised internally too.

 

[387star]

All this talk about moving to the coast...

People may say TL is great In comparison but it sucks if you want to go coastal aside pricey Brighton. I couldn't get in at a coastal southern depot despite both being GTR and despite SN drivers coming to TL. I'd have to apply as an external but it never seemed to advertise.

Anyway I'm at a coastal depot now

 

[43066]

All this talk about moving to the coast...

People may say TL is great In comparison but it sucks if you want to go coastal. I couldn't get in at a coastal southern depot despite both being GTR and despite SN drivers coming to TL. I'd have to apply as an external but it never seemed to advertise.

Anyway I'm at a coastal depot now

What about Brighton TL depot (does that still exist, or did it get rolled into three bridges?).

I understood that (at least historically) TL/Southern/GATEX were all one TOC as far as depot transfers were concerned.

I must admit, money aside, TL seems less attractive now that the depots are route specific - Bridges and Bedford sound pretty good, but doesn’t St Albans do Sutton loops only? That’s shocking.

 

[notadriver]

I've accepted I made a mistake saying they worked ten hours. They used to work ten but now its nine and a half. I work on metro amd haven't paid much interest in the conditions of high speed drivers since it started because its something I wouldn't do. I know a guy who went there the other year and doesn't like it now the novelty has worn off and they have to do rounders. For a bus driver you seem to know a lot about train drivers jobs. I'll be the first to admit I know SFA about driving buses and care even less. Maybe you'd be better off going up as a train driver if it interests you. I know the money and conditions are a lot better than the buses - even on SE!

Thank you for that. I just take an interest and have friends who are drivers as I’m sure many do. Of course you can’t get on the high speed without being a classic driver first. But I don’t believe they ever worked 10 hour shifts. The on board managers on the other hand can work up to 10h30.
I think HS work could be considerably improved if there were less stops - I think most diagrams still have less stops than the main line equivalent but it’s still a lot. But pay parity with nearby tocs is a major issue something I’m told may be resolved in the next pay deal ?

 

[387star]

What about Brighton TL depot (does that still exist, or did it get rolled into three bridges?).

I understood that (at least historically) TL/Southern/GATEX were all one TOC as far as depot transfers were concerned.

I must admit, money aside, TL seems less attractive now that the depots are route specific - Bridges and Bedford sound pretty good, but doesn’t St Albans do Sutton loops only? That’s shocking.

No lateral moves Thameslink to Southern yet GTR allowed a load of Southern blokes to come over as a lateral when it suited them

Some depots are great Horsham is a new dead mans shoes depot with less night work than other depots and a nice run to Peterborough aside the slow crawl Horsham to Gatwick and around Redhill.

Cricklewood Albans Gillingham Hornsey probably worst for work though the latter is probably GN. Albans is AFAIK like you say Cricklewood similar but adding Catford Loop.

Brighton was to downsize but actually it's remained fairly big with a load of Bridges and Ashford trainees transferred over

Ashford TL is meant to be very good work which isn't surprising given the intended service is absent

Historically TL was FCC and only merged with Southern in 2014

 

[Economist]

Kings Lynn has got to be nice if you can get it, Norfolk cost of living with London-style wages. Now, I wouldn't mind that.

Ashford have two hours to pass to Sevenoaks/Orpington, two trips a day, not bad for some.

As for London depots, well it kind of helps if you have a taxi agreement in place I suppose...

 

[387star]

Kings Lynn has got to be nice if you can get it, Norfolk cost of living with London-style wages...

Yeah that's a popular depot. Peterborough looks good too in terms of house prices plus a mix of TL and GN outer stuff

It does seem unfair London Drivers get the same wage as someone at an outer depot ? Would make a good thread but sorry off topic

 

[387star]

Kings Lynn has got to be nice if you can get it, Norfolk cost of living with London-style wages. Now, I wouldn't mind that.

Ashford have two hours to pass to Sevenoaks/Orpington, two trips a day, not bad for some.

As for London depots, well it kind of helps if you have a taxi agreement in place I suppose...

Whats great at TL is for drivers on the old conditions (started before mid 2017) the taxi agreement is ALL depots

 

[43066]

Ashford TL is meant to be very good work which isn't surprising given the intended service is absent

Weren't loads of them being taxied up to Orpington to learn their routes (with the taxi journey both ways included in their shifts, so very little driving!).

(sorry this is off topic, but fascinating nonetheless).