Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[Dave1987]

I would say 99.9% of passengers do listen to announcements, well the important ones anyway. I don't suppose many listen to repetitive announcements about their belongings, use of first class etc etc etc.

I was told by a member of Southern staff this morning that the only proposed change is that guards will no longer do the doors so will be able to walk through the train more as happens on the HS1 Javelins, no job losses and no reduction in pay.

At the moment, yes. What about a year or two down the line? Are this new OBS role PTS trained? Are they traction trained? Are GTR compelled to provide provide an OBS for each service? How long will this OBS role survive?

 

[TheEdge]

How long will this OBS role survive?

About 25 minutes or when the dust setlles. Whichever is the soonest.

 

[ComUtoR]

I would say 99.9% of passengers do listen to announcements, well the important ones anyway. I don't suppose many listen to repetitive announcements about their belongings, use of first class etc etc etc.

So 99% of passengers do listen but then you say that many don't listen to the others ? :roll:

As to important announcements. What do you consider important ? The ones about belongings etc are a legal requirement so it seems that someone considers them to be important enough. There are just as many people that consider the reminders about calling patterns to be a bit of an overkill and neither useful or important. The problem is that we have to account for everyone and not just the minority of passengers that don't like them.

Indeed, in my view that wibble detracts from the value of the announcements that are actually important.

Again, what do you consider to be important and why do you discount the other information as wibble ? I can agree that having more and more announcements is having a more detrimental effect than a positive one but what approach would you take ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, what do you consider to be important and why do you discount the other information as wibble ? I can agree that having more and more announcements is having a more detrimental effect than a positive one but what approach would you take ?

I know TOCs are required by the Government to do it so can't unilaterally stop, but things like "look after your luggage" and "report anything untoward to a policeman or member of staff" are a complete waste of time, as anyone right-minded will do that anyway, while anyone not right-minded will ignore it.

Announcements and displays that are actually useful are:
- Where the train is going and where it will call along the way
- What the next stop is
- When we have arrived there or will arrive there
- A short list of key connections just before arrival
- Any additional information regarding delays or out of course operation

That's the lot.

I would even go so far as to remove unnecessary words. A local implementation of bus onboard PIS says "the next stop is" before every stop name. This is spurious and irritating. Reading the stop name alone suffices, as there's not anything else it *could* be.

As a general rule, I suppose, "static" information should not go on the PIS.

 

[Antman]

So 99% of passengers do listen but then you say that many don't listen to the others ? :roll:

As to important announcements. What do you consider important ? The ones about belongings etc are a legal requirement so it seems that someone considers them to be important enough. There are just as many people that consider the reminders about calling patterns to be a bit of an overkill and neither useful or important. The problem is that we have to account for everyone and not just the minority of passengers that don't like them.



Again, what do you consider to be important and why do you discount the other information as wibble ? I can agree that having more and more announcements is having a more detrimental effect than a positive one but what approach would you take ?

I'm probably stating the obvious here but as you've asked, if an announcement comes over that the train will be delayed for a while for whatever reason the collective groan that goes up suggests that most people are listening. Repetitive announcements are unlikely to be listened too. Is that clear now?:roll:

 

[sarahj]

When I have to do something radical I normally start of with something like' Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a very important announcement, please listen and inform anyone near to you with headphones on. This is important,' and then 'blah blah blah'.



And on a slight note, something interesting happened at Chichester this morning. Will not go into to details, but stuff has hit the fan. Others may be along with more details.

 

[Agent_c]

*moves to edge of seat* well don't keep us in suspense, what happened? Lockout? Firing a steward?

 

[cjmillsnun]

I would say 99.9% of passengers do listen to announcements, well the important ones anyway. I don't suppose many listen to repetitive announcements about their belongings, use of first class etc etc etc.

I was told by a member of Southern staff this morning that the only proposed change is that guards will no longer do the doors so will be able to walk through the train more as happens on the HS1 Javelins, no job losses and no reduction in pay.

A bit like the old GatEx conductors then. We all know what happened there
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

About 25 minutes or when the dust setlles. Whichever is the soonest.

That long?

 

[sarahj]

*moves to edge of seat* well don't keep us in suspense, what happened? Lockout? Firing a steward?

More operations side.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X44733/2016/04/27/advanced
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At the moment, yes. What about a year or two down the line? Are this new OBS role PTS trained? Are they traction trained? Are GTR compelled to provide provide an OBS for each service? How long will this OBS role survive?

Answers

Possibly
No
No
hahahaha

 

[bb21]

I feel like I should be running a sweepstake to see how long the OBS roles last.

 

[sarahj]

I feel like I should be running a sweepstake to see how long the OBS roles last.

The bumf they keeping sending out states this: All OBS and retained conductors (someone still has to work the 313's and 171's (or whatever)) are guaranteed to remain employed on the agreed terms by GTR following introduction of the role to Southern and thereafter transferred in line with all other staff into the following franchise'.

So could be 3 years, could be 20 years, so could be 3 weeks, as we now know what agreements mean to them.

 

[74A]

The bumf they keeping sending out states this: All OBS and retained conductors (someone still has to work the 313's and 171's (or whatever)) are guaranteed to remain employed on the agreed terms by GTR following introduction of the role to Southern and thereafter transferred in line with all other staff into the following franchise'.
.

So that would be for 7 years until the end of the franchise in 2022. No company can promise anything will continue into the next franchise.

 

[TEW]

And what announcements would you like to hear, bearing in mind the general public don't listen to them 99.9% of the time. Why is it most of the complaints about Guards not doing announcements seem to come from Rail Enthusiasts, must like the sound of the Guards voice. As an aside when i use to make announcements on the train (of which no listened to anyway) i never use to say what my role is, i just gave the passengers the fact of either where we are, we we are going, and delays if any if what they are.

As for passing through the train, i wouldn't know what the reason would be to pass through the train, i also dont know if the guards could do that on the type of train that operates on that route and how long distances are between stations in time. I was often lucky to get from coach to the other between stations.

I suppose the idea of the poster to put down revenue was to distinguish the roles. I think on South West Trains they have what is called commercial guards on the main line, and non commercial guards on what is a metro type service (hopefully someone can correct me if i am wrong).

SWT guards are required to make annoucements at certain stations, the usual security stuff and also making passengers aware of their presence on the train. Wherever possible they should also be patrolling the train, again to make passengers aware of their presence and for customer service reasons. 455s have door controls in nearly every coach, so it is fairly easy to patrol. There are certain stations where train despatch has to be carried out at a specific location, normally the middle cab of an 8-car 455, and sometimes the train will be too busy to walk through. I'm sure on a journey from Shepperton to Waterloo there is ample opportunity for the guard to patrol the train at least once.

 

[Agent_c]

SWT guards are required to make annoucements at certain stations, the usual security stuff and also making passengers aware of their presence on the train. Wherever possible they should also be patrolling the train, again to make passengers aware of their presence and for customer service reasons. 455s have door controls in nearly every coach, so it is fairly easy to patrol. There are certain stations where train despatch has to be carried out at a specific location, normally the middle cab of an 8-car 455, and sometimes the train will be too busy to walk through. I'm sure on a journey from Shepperton to Waterloo there is ample opportunity for the guard to patrol the train at least once.

I haven't been on SWT for a long time, a 5 or so years ago, but I do remember their announcements told passengers where to find them on the train, which I thought was a great reassuring touch. Is this still SOP?

 

[TEW]

Yes, that is part of the announcement guards are required to make at certain points in the journey.

 

[Agent_c]

Yes, that is part of the announcement guards are required to make at certain points in the journey.

Something I wish we had in Glasgow. Although the more colourful characters tend to catch the bus, there are certain days where I'd like to know where to find help if I need it.

 

[sarahj]

When I have to do something radical I normally start of with something like' Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a very important announcement, please listen and inform anyone near to you with headphones on. This is important,' and then 'blah blah blah'.



And on a slight note, something interesting happened at Chichester this morning. Will not go into to details, but stuff has hit the fan. Others may be along with more details.

Oh and now another one. Somehow 5 days training does not quite cut the mustard.

 

[tony6499]

Management Guard giving right away on a red signal, oh dear. Best leave this to the professionals

 

[Sleepy]

Management Guard giving right away on a red signal, oh dear. Best leave this to the professionals

:roll: Hopefully RMT and ASLEF will be shouting from the rooftops about this !!

 

[bb21]

Stock went ECS to Three Bridges, where I guess the guard was booked to come off?

Does seem like the timing couldn't have been worse.

 

[infobleep]

If every driver had to individually ring up control to ask what is happening, not a lot would get done, especially on lines as congested as the BML! My understanding is that control tend to send text messages as a general broadcast which can be picked up by Guards on their blackberry or other communication device. Drivers can't access them effectively because they aren't sent over GSM-R and turning their phone on and off again (with associated rigmarole involving securing the cab) to access them would take far too long.

Whilst I don't support DOO, would it be possible to send messages over GSM-R were it introduced widely?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[LowLevel]

I've heard on the jungle telegraph about a potential SASPAD (guard/manager giving 2 Bells against a red signal) and also a dispatch incident, possibly at Gatwick? Not having a great day really!

 

[tsr]

Whilst I don't support DOO, would it be possible to send messages over GSM-R were it introduced widely?

Controllers can remotely upload visual messages to PIS systems on Southern & some TL stock already, which are then activated by GPS locations - basically just scrolling text which can be used for any required service updates, accompanied by a chime. This can now be done for individual trains or lines of route.

I believe that only signallers currently make PA announcements over GSM-R, which is obviously mostly for safety rather than customer service reasons. I'm not sure if this could be rolled out to Control staff. AFAIK Southern are still proposing that those in the new OBS role will be able to make announcements on trains, though. This opens a bit of a can of worms about cab access and knowledge of communication systems, but I'll leave that one there for now.

 

[axlecounter]

Whilst I don't support DOO, would it be possible to send messages over GSM-R were it introduced widely?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

GSM-R allows to send text messages.

 

[TheEdge]

Aww no, looks like some managers doing the easy replaceable job have screwed up said easy job.

Bet they don't get the book thrown at them though!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Are managers selling tickets on these trains?

 

[HLE]

Management Guard giving right away on a red signal, oh dear. Best leave this to the professionals

You cannot make it up!

 

[Antman]

You cannot make it up!

Wouldn't most guards have made a mistake like that at some point?

 

[Dave1987]

So that would be for 7 years until the end of the franchise in 2022. No company can promise anything will continue into the next franchise.

Well it seems agreements mean didilly squat so I'm sure they could make the OBS role disappear as well!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wouldn't most guards have made a mistake like that at some point?

No.

It's a serious matter, it's not a whoopsie we all get to laugh about afterwards.

Goes to show that managers running trains IS dangerous.