Speed through gatelines

[najaB]

Stations could quite easily capture facial recognition at entry points and scan at exit, that way you wouldn't need gate lines at all and people could just leave the station.

Welcome to communist China... *shudder*

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again thats only an issue if scanning from the PDF where it isn't formatted well. Scan from Wallet or directly in the app and you don't need to worry about it being aligned, its in a predictable place on the screen.

Though fiddling with the brightness is not unusual to be needed. Some apps automatically increase it, but not all do and not on all phones.

That isn't as necessary with camera based scanners.

 

[Lucan]

That depends entirely on the phone, and how it is held.

My point was a bit off-topic in that it referred to card vs phone generally. It is not always as simple as just paying, the issue is complicated with loyalty schemes etc which require you to pay with (or alongside) an app.

My supermarket used to send me paper money-off vouchers by post. At the checkout I would toss the cashier the three or four I wanted to use together with my physical loyalty card, and they would scan them all in about 3 seconds. Now they are all on the supermarket's app, and even if I approach with my phone as ready as possible, with the app open, I must scroll down the list of my vouchers for each one I want to use, and for each one : select -> enlarge for the QR code -> show the cashier for them to scan -> press back arrow to return to the list -> select next voucher -> rinse and repeat for each voucher .... On top of this, the app on the tiny touch screen is a deliberate minefield of side-tracking advertising links, so if I slightly miss the icon for a voucher I end up with a sceen of ladies lingerie bargains for example.

Expect this situation to get worse. Like many things that seem like a good idea initially, the internet itself for example, smartphones are now hijacked by marketing people to the point where they become less convenient that what went before. We are heading for a point where you will not be able to buy an ice cream without installing the ice cream man's app first.

 

[SteveM70]

Again thats only an issue if scanning from the PDF where it isn't formatted well. Scan from Wallet or directly in the app and you don't need to worry about it being aligned, its in a predictable place on the screen.

OK, but it’s still bad design as far as
I’m concerned. Why wouldn’t you design it so that the user can see their phone screen?

 

[AM9]

It's people that go right up to the gateline, stop dead, then get their phone out and find the relevant app/ticket.

Phone in hand, ticket on the screen, brightness up well in advance, I'm through just as quickly as a paper ticket.

That's exactly the same issue with ticket, Oyster cards, ITSO cards and contactlless (Bank Card) transactions. Passengers decide to get whatever form their ticket is in when they get to the gate rather than approaching the gate. Personally, unless both hands are already in use, getting a card wallett out of my pocket and presenting the ticket to a reader. A phone is something different, it will need the login screen to be woken up, a PIN entered, the ticket application opened, and the ticket loaded onto the screen before presentation. Those who think that phone based virtual tickets are faster need to consider how long many others take to pass through and not assume that everybody should be as fast as they are.

 

[jon81uk]

My supermarket used to send me paper money-off vouchers by post. At the checkout I would toss the cashier the three or four I wanted to use together with my physical loyalty card, and they would scan them all in about 3 seconds. Now they are all on the supermarket's app, and even if I approach with my phone as ready as possible, with the app open, I must scroll down the list of my vouchers for each one I want to use, and for each one : select -> enlarge for the QR code -> show the cashier for them to scan -> press back arrow to return to the list -> select next voucher -> rinse and repeat for each voucher .... On top of this, the app on the tiny touch screen is a deliberate minefield of side-tracking advertising links, so if I slightly miss the icon for a voucher I end up with a sceen of ladies lingerie bargains for example.

Which supermarket app contains adverts for lingerie?

Though fiddling with the brightness is not unusual to be needed. Some apps automatically increase it, but not all do and not on all phones.

That isn't as necessary with camera based scanners.

I thought all the gateline scanners are camera based? I've never had a failed scan on either station on my normal commute. I've used a mix of Greater Anglia app, Virgin tickets app, Apple Wallet and direct from the email PDF (once when I couldn't make an app work), never had the brightness issue. There are no red lasers so I assume they are camera based, but its possible other stations are different (I've only done eticket at three National Rail stations).

 

[DelW]

However, the delays are far outweighed by passengers who feel the need to wait for the ticket gate to close after the last passenger before presenting/inserting their own ticket.

What does slow down progress is the passenger who won't tap on until the gate has shut after the passenger in front.

The risk with closely following another passenger is that their ticket may be declined by the gate. If you've already inserted/scanned your ticket, that will open the gate, the passenger in front will pass through, the gate closes, and you're left on the wrong side with a closed gate and no way of reopening it. It's happened to me (with a paper ticket which was swallowed by the gate). Fortunately the gate line attendant accepted my explanation and let me out.

 

[island]

The risk with closely following another passenger is that their ticket may be declined by the gate. If you've already inserted/scanned your ticket, that will open the gate, the passenger in front will pass through, the gate closes, and you're left on the wrong side with a closed gate and no way of reopening it. It's happened to me (with a paper ticket which was swallowed by the gate). Fortunately the gate line attendant accepted my explanation and let me out.

That does not necessitate waiting for the gate to close.

 

[DelW]

That does not necessitate waiting for the gate to close.

I didn't say it did. I was offering a reason why passengers might be cautious in following closely behind others - as I am now.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I've found it depends on which station you're at, using the Greater Anglia app, Liverpool Street it's quick and pretty much always works, Norwich on the other hand, getting onto the platform is fine and always works (except when I got the wrong days ticket) but getting out I've come back most weeks since May and I think it's scanned the grand total of once. I'm not the only one either, sometimes it's chaos until they open one gate and check them manually.

Not sure if others have found the reliability depends on the station

 

[Hadders]

The challenge when using a busy gateline is to insert, touch or scan your ticket quickly enough so that the gates don’t have time to close between passengers. Easily possible with Oyster and contactless and doable with a paper ticket if you’re swift enough

 

[lookapigeon]

Yes I have certainly noticed this. I think also the fact there is added latency when using a phone is due to the amount of cruft people have open (and slowing the phone down) as well as the multitude of places in which the NFC antenna is in relative to that on the reader (and the user's ability to place it on the right area) have an effect to get a successful and timely read.

I've always found a purpose designed device (like an NFC card such as a bank card, oyster etc) presented to the TFL yellow pad gets a timely response. It's designed for the job with its own software and hardware architecture.

 

[brad465]

I actually did a thread on something similar to this last year, but focusing on gates appearing to reject more tickets, and wondered whether the increasing variety of ticket formats was contributing to more rejections? In particular at Paddington there have been gates where paper tickets are not working/permitted, only smartcard/mobile ones, which can slow things down as paper ticket users suddenly have to look for another gate if in a crowd that obscured view till the last second. While it's looking like a flawed venture, if all ticket offices are to be closed, I'd like to see staff transferred to gatelines to speed up passenger flows for this reason.

 

[Jimini]

If you use the express travel card option on your iPhone, it’s ridiculously quick to use the tube gates. Don’t even have to unlock your phone. Been using it for years now!

 

[miklcct]

In my experience, using an e-ticket is definitely slower than paper even if I have opened the ticket ready on my phone.

At Brighton station, I sometimes have to faff with my phone on the reader, trying different angles and positions for half a minute before the gate will open.

 

[jon81uk]

Yes I have certainly noticed this. I think also the fact there is added latency when using a phone is due to the amount of cruft people have open (and slowing the phone down) as well as the multitude of places in which the NFC antenna is in relative to that on the reader (and the user's ability to place it on the right area) have an effect to get a successful and timely read.

I've always found a purpose designed device (like an NFC card such as a bank card, oyster etc) presented to the TFL yellow pad gets a timely response. It's designed for the job with its own software and hardware architecture.

With iPhone there is no noticeable difference between tapping the phone and tapping a bank card, it’s designed for the job and Apple manages the applications running to ensure Apple Pay is prioritised.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

The gates of Underground stations seem wonderfully optimised so that you can insert a paper ticket, keep walking, and then withdraw it and have the gates open with that rewarding clunk just as you’re about to walk into them. I’ve got this down to a smooth, satisfying motion where I don’t have to slow down at all (even if I sometimes look a bit silly walking into the gates if they haven’t opened due to the ticket being unreadable or whatever).

I presume that such gates were carefully and skilfully optimised for the above many decades ago, and I will miss this when TfL stop accepting paper Travelcards.

(The newer type of gates at National Rail stations, for whatever reason, are that critical bit slower. I don’t know whether that’s due to some technical limitation, or just less of a stuff being given latterly about the “user experience”.)

 

[davews]

When using contactless I always pause until the gate starts to close before touching, it gives me the confidence that my tap in has been registered. A friend had a maximum fare when he was too hasty rushing through the gate when there was a crowd of passengers.

 

[Brissle Girl]

When using contactless I always pause until the gate starts to close before touching, it gives me the confidence that my tap in has been registered. A friend had a maximum fare when he was too hasty rushing through the gate when there was a crowd of passengers.

I do exactly the same.

 

[The exile]

They're really not.

Well, at station gate lines/ticket inspections I hardly have to break step when presenting a CCST ticket whereas anything reading a QR type code (be it the gate or a manual check) requires people to stop. QED

 

[stuu]

A massive sign saying

"HOLD YOUR PHONE STILL"

For people using QR codes would help enormously. So many people wave them about because they don't realise the scanner has to focus on the code

 

[xotGD]

Whenever I get stuck behind someone at the ticket barrier they are faffing about waving a phone over the reader.

And even when it works smoothly, it is a slower process than inserting a paper ticket.

 

[najaB]

And even when it works smoothly, it is a slower process than inserting a paper ticket.

Of course, paper tickets never get rejected or take two goes...

 

[AM9]

Of course, paper tickets never get rejected or take two goes...

Of course they do but their higher average speed has resulted in LU keeping them longer than they might have otherwise. Phones using nfc are about the same as contactless cards, but optical recognition is slowest of all.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Those steam trains were brilliant. Don't know why we have to progress.

 

[The exile]

Those steam trains were brilliant. Don't know why we have to progress.

I’m sure this was meant lightheartedly- unfortunately the “argument” it is using is trotted out every time someone questions the form or direction of that progress. There are many ways in which the move towards alternatives to the traditional cardboard ticket is indeed progress. Speed of exit/entrance through gate lines is definitely not one of them - at the moment at least.

 

[harz99]

At lest all this takes place off train prior to boarding or at the gateline on exit, or on train whilst it is moving. On the bus side of public transport, using phones to pay really does slow boarding down in comparison with other non cash methods, and the bus can't move until everyone is on board and paid..

 

[lkpridgeon]

From my recent experience (anecdotal I know!), around my neck of the woods people with paper CCST tickets seem to be the slowest at the gateline! They seem to be rejected more often, people try and tap them on the smartcard reader (I've had to correct numerous people over the last week trying to do this...) and/or people generally stand right in front of the gate fishing through their bags/pockets then subsequently stopping right in front once through to put it back and resort.

 

[LYuen]

When using contactless I always pause until the gate starts to close before touching, it gives me the confidence that my tap in has been registered. A friend had a maximum fare when he was too hasty rushing through the gate when there was a crowd of passengers.

Good practice. With Oyster Card I am not reluctant to tapping before the gate is closed because it will show the balance / fare of the journey, which is the indication MY card is being recognised.
With bank card or mobile wallet I always wait as the OK or whatever message it is at the gate is purely useless.

 

[cornishjohn]

My point was a bit off-topic in that it referred to card vs phone generally. It is not always as simple as just paying, the issue is complicated with loyalty schemes etc which require you to pay with (or alongside) an app.

My supermarket used to send me paper money-off vouchers by post. At the checkout I would toss the cashier the three or four I wanted to use together with my physical loyalty card, and they would scan them all in about 3 seconds. Now they are all on the supermarket's app, and even if I approach with my phone as ready as possible, with the app open, I must scroll down the list of my vouchers for each one I want to use, and for each one : select -> enlarge for the QR code -> show the cashier for them to scan -> press back arrow to return to the list -> select next voucher -> rinse and repeat for each voucher .... On top of this, the app on the tiny touch screen is a deliberate minefield of side-tracking advertising links, so if I slightly miss the icon for a voucher I end up with a sceen of ladies lingerie bargains for example.

This is just bad app design.

My app for a supermarket in Germany suggests a bunch of money off coupons to me, I enable those I want on the app, and the app then generates a single "super" QR code to show at the till for all the coupons at once. Simples.