Speed through gatelines

[Taunton]

When using contactless I always pause until the gate starts to close before touching, it gives me the confidence that my tap in has been registered. A friend had a maximum fare when he was too hasty rushing through the gate when there was a crowd of passengers.

Indeed. The posts above about going through fast and "timewasting" if you wait for them to start closing after the previous passenger are inappropriate, there are a range of speed combinations, some noted above, which let you through but the software cannot handle it.

 

[Dai Corner]

Very much so, those fumbling with their phones whilst walking along platforms or up and down very crowded footbridge steps are a hazard both to themselves and others as bodies that are paying insufficient attention to their progress and that of others around them. It's yet another cause of obstruction by mobile use.

Aren't those fumbling in their pockets, wallets, purses or bags for cards or paper tickets similarly hazardous?

 

[WestAnglian]

But the overall time you are spending is longer. Paper tickets have that incredible advantage of not needing to navigate to on a phone, nor need to increase screen brightness for.

And in my experience about a 40% chance of not working in a given gate.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Aren't those fumbling in their pockets, wallets, purses or bags for cards or paper tickets similarly hazardous?

But those against technology will say they aren't at all! They also ignore all those who fold their tickets or leave them uncovered in their pockets and they wear. And they simply can't comprehend that people can be on their phone and walk at the same time!
Those against technology will be against it. There can't be many left though as sitting in a train during a ticket inspection shows. It's virtually all e-tickets.

 

[island]

Interesting - I wonder if that's because scanning optical codes is now more intuitive than magstripe to most people?
It's still not great that optical is below 90% - I can see why TfL wouldn't be keen.

Anecdotally: I've certainly seen people very confused as to how a CCST should be used. Including trying to 'tap' it on the contactless interface!

I think one of the issues with scanning Aztec tickets is that there is a learned behaviour from self service tills to wave a barcode back and forth so that the laser scanner picks it up. This is precisely the opposite of what you want to do with the optical scanners on ticket gates; the ticket should be held in place for the camera.

 

[Mountain Man]

But those against technology will say they aren't at all! They also ignore all those who fold their tickets or leave them uncovered in their pockets and they wear. And they simply can't comprehend that people can be on their phone and walk at the same time!
Those against technology will be against it. There can't be many left though as sitting in a train during a ticket inspection shows. It's virtually all e-tickets.

And there are plenty who refuse to accept technology can also have it's faults.

That's why a range of solutions are needed. Both electronic technology and others.

 

[AM9]

Aren't those fumbling in their pockets, wallets, purses or bags for cards or paper tickets similarly hazardous?

I explained how I retreive my ticket without needing to look away from where I'm walking. That just isn't possible from a phone.

And there are plenty who refuse to accept technology can also have it's faults.

That's why a range of solutions are needed. Both electronic technology and others.

No problem with that, but those dictating that everybody should have tickets in a smartphone (just because they choose to) and that the gateline would be faster because of that should be careful of what they wish for. Remember, people choose their form of ticket (unless the railway takes some of those choices away) and forcing an inapproriate type of ticket will cause delays to those impatient smartphone users just like everbody else.

 

[Taunton]

One of the issues with advancing technologies is that the first manufacturer to devise a useful feature then patents it, which means that others in the same field can't use it. There are notes above about iPhones having a feature, which then leads to Android users being locked out of the advance. The reverse can of course apply, it's a question of who was smartest to get the idea patented first.

Interesting comment from children in London about Zip cards, which are Oyster-technology issued to schoolchildren, that cards are a past technology and they expect it on their Apple Watch now!

 

[AM9]

One of the issues with advancing technologies is that the first manufacturer to devise a useful feature then patents it, which means that others in the same field can't use it. There are notes above about iPhones having a feature, which then leads to Android users being locked out of the advance. The reverse can of course apply, it's a question of who was smartest to get the idea patented first.

Interesting comment from children in London about Zip cards, which are Oyster-technology issued to schoolchildren, that cards are a past technology and they expect it on their Apple Watch now!

Those whose parents can afford them!

 

[Taunton]

And they simply can't comprehend that people can be on their phone and walk at the same time!

Some of us can ... and it's quite apparent that a significant number can't.

Notably the latter generally seem to be younger than me

While we are doing technology and single-mindedness, a notable downside of WiFi on the Elizabeth Line is those who seem to want to take up a jammed position slouched against the doorway handrails, two-thumbing their game which they are totally absorbed in, such that "Excuse Me" requests go in one ear and out the other. It must be going to have an impact on dwell times as the technology is rolled out. No wonder the Liz station stops have been set so unnecessarily long.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I explained how I retreive my ticket without needing to look away from where I'm walking. That just isn't possible from a phone.


No problem with that, but those dictating that everybody should have tickets in a smartphone (just because they choose to) and that the gateline would be faster because of that should be careful of what they wish for. Remember, people choose their form of ticket (unless the railway takes some of those choices away) and forcing an inapproriate type of ticket will cause delays to those impatient smartphone users just like everbody else.

It is possible to unlock your phone without looking at it. Indeed even easier than going into a pocket for a ticket. And any sensible person would have left the ticket on the screen before locking it. You literally just put your thumb on the unlock and your ticket is there. It really can't be simpler.
Choice is, of course, key. Like shops that say they only take cards. I get taking cash is more expensive (I run a business) and much more risky and even more inconvenient. But, for those customers that want to do it, it's vital. But, we hardly take any cash & it continues to fall, I guess they'll be less & less paper tickets and eventually we reach a point where it's simply not economical.

 

[AM9]

Choice is, of course, key. Like shops that say they only take cards. I get taking cash is more expensive (I run a business) and much more risky and even more inconvenient. But, for those customers that want to do it, it's vital. But, we hardly take any cash & it continues to fall, I guess they'll be less & less paper tickets and eventually we reach a point where it's simply not economical.

Actually, there have been recent reports of cash use increasing in some areas, - it's regarded as a more effective way for some to budget.

 

[Dai Corner]

Actually, there have been recent reports of cash use increasing in some areas, - it's regarded as a more effective way for some to budget.

I expect there are still some who like to file their paper train tickets to remind them where they've travelled, but the overwhelming change is towards digital.

 

[crablab]

Like shops that say they only take cards. I get taking cash is more expensive (I run a business) and much more risky and even more inconvenient.

In the retail I'm involved with we simply don't take cash. On the rare occasion someone insists they want to pay in cash we'd rather lose the sale than have to deal with the change, banking and accounting for it.
Invariably someone else will buy the item and pay by card.

 

[island]

It is possible to unlock your phone without looking at it. Indeed even easier than going into a pocket for a ticket. And any sensible person would have left the ticket on the screen before locking it. You literally just put your thumb on the unlock and your ticket is there. It really can't be simpler.

Not all phones have an "unlock" that you "put your thumb on".

 

[occone]

Indeed. The posts above about going through fast and "timewasting" if you wait for them to start closing after the previous passenger are inappropriate, there are a range of speed combinations, some noted above, which let you through but the software cannot handle it.

Definitely. I time my approach with some generous space between me and the person in front so it doesn't look like I'm actively waiting.

A modicum of patience would be nice too, but you can't have everything.

 

[irp]

That's exactly the same issue with ticket, Oyster cards, ITSO cards and contactlless (Bank Card) transactions. Passengers decide to get whatever form their ticket is in when they get to the gate rather than approaching the gate. Personally, unless both hands are already in use, getting a card wallett out of my pocket and presenting the ticket to a reader. A phone is something different, it will need the login screen to be woken up, a PIN entered, the ticket application opened, and the ticket loaded onto the screen before presentation. Those who think that phone based virtual tickets are faster need to consider how long many others take to pass through and not assume that everybody should be as fast as they are.

Quite. Try getting through the gates when you only have full dexterity in one hand, and are dragging luggage with that hand [I have worked out a method over the years, but it involves stepping out of the line, getting everything in the right place, stepping back in, and then timing everything just right!]. With a phone based ticket, that's actually much harder for me!

 

[Hadders]

Actually, there have been recent reports of cash use increasing in some areas, - it's regarded as a more effective way for some to budget.

Cash has seen a small renaissance as some people do use it as a way of budgeting but its use is nowhere near pre-pandemic levels and it's never going to get anywhere near the levels seen pre-pandemic.

Cash was in huge decline before the pandemic, the pandemic has just accelerated its decline.

 

[najaB]

Cash was in huge decline before the pandemic, the pandemic has just accelerated its decline.

Obviously the singular of data is anecdote and all that, but I'd say that pre-pandemic I used cash maybe two or three times a week, now I literally go a month or more without even having any cash with me at all.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Obviously the singular of data is anecdote and all that, but I'd say that pre-pandemic I used cash maybe two or three times a week, now I literally go a month or more without even having any cash with me at all.

I remember going to a cash machine regularly. I can't remember when I last went to one now.
Young people never bother with cash at all. They see it as a huge inconvenience. Much like we see cheques. The use of cash will only decline further.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I remember going to a cash machine regularly. I can't remember when I last went to one now.
Young people never bother with cash at all. They see it as a huge inconvenience. Much like we see cash. The use of cash will only decline further.

I wouldn't say it is wise to generalise here. I am a young person (well, under 25) and still use cash relatively frequently. Plus, it depends where you are and if the young person has a weekend job- many of those pay cash in hand.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I wouldn't say it is wise to generalise here. I am a young person (well, under 25) and still use cash relatively frequently. Plus, it depends where you are and if the young person has a weekend job- many of those pay cash in hand

I think that is the biggest use of cash-businesses using it for undeclared things!

 

[AlastairFraser]

I think that is the biggest use of cash-businesses using it for undeclared things!

Certainly

 

[AM9]

Despite a few anecdotal posts here about the reduction in cash use, here is the news article reporting that the number of cash payments had risen by 7% during last year.

Link to BBC news article: "Cash payments rise for first time in 10 years".
"In another attempt to manage limited budgets, the number of payments made using physical cash increased by 7% last year, compared with 2021, to 6.4 billion payments."

 

[Dai Corner]

Despite a few anecdotal posts here about the reduction in cash use, here is the news article reporting that the number of cash payments had risen by 7% during last year.

Link to BBC news article: "Cash payments rise for first time in 10 years".
"In another attempt to manage limited budgets, the number of payments made using physical cash increased by 7% last year, compared with 2021, to 6.4 billion payments."

But in the next paragraph it says

It was the second most popular method of payment, but still only accounted for 14% of the overall total, having been dwarfed by card use.

and the accompanying chart shows a much bigger rise in the number of card transactions.

 

[AM9]

But in the next paragraph it says


and the accompanying chart shows a much bigger rise in the number of card transactions.

I didn't say that non-cash transactions were being userped, - just that (contrary to what many are saying here), cash tranactions have recently risen against the downward trend, (see post #102 above).

 

[Deafdoggie]

I didn't say that non-cash transactions were being userped, - just that (contrary to what many are saying here), cash tranactions have recently risen against the downward trend, (see post #102 above).

But by an insignificant amount. And that's from a virtually nil base in covid.

 

[Dai Corner]

But by an insignificant amount. And that's from a virtually nil base in covid.

Cash transactions rose, but card transactions rose more, both in numbers and as a proportion of the total. I can't interpret that in any other way than by concluding that cash is becoming less popular.

 

[najaB]

I didn't say that non-cash transactions were being userped, - just that (contrary to what many are saying here), cash tranactions have recently risen against the downward trend, (see post #102 above).

The number of cash payments increased, yes. But the proportion of cash payments continued to fall. As the saying goes, a rising tide floats all boats.

 

[antharro]

At least in London, I've always found Oyster to be fastest. On the times I've left my Oyster card at home and have used my phone instead, it's been noticeably slower even when I've had my phone ready in good time. I've also find reads can be a little less reliable, mostly on buses. I only ever use paper tickets on NR and generally they're fast enough - somewhere in between Oyster and phone.