Speed through gatelines

[John R]

Having had to spend a few minutes at a gateline waiting for my better half it seemed to me that those using a phone to gain access, either by simply tapping, or by presenting a QR code, take longer on average than those simply tapping with a bank card or Oyster, or feeding in a card ticket.

Has anyone else noticed this? Even if the delay is a matter of a second or two per transaction, it could easily be reducing the flow capacity of gatelines at large stations to an extent that causes delays, particularly when a full train arrives at a terminus station.

 

[Lucan]

seemed to me that those using a phone to gain access ... take longer on average than those simply tapping with a bank card or Oyster, or feeding in a card ticket.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Not just at station gatelines - phones are making transactions slower everywhere.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Having had to spend a few minutes at a gateline waiting for my better half it seemed to me that those using a phone to gain access, either by simply tapping, or by presenting a QR code, take longer on average than those simply tapping with a bank card or Oyster, or feeding in a card ticket.

Has anyone else noticed this? Even if the delay is a matter of a second or two per transaction, it could easily be reducing the flow capacity of gatelines at large stations to an extent that causes delays, particularly when a full train arrives at a terminus station.

A lot of people are still new to it. It'll speed as people get used to it. Everyone claimed oyster was slower when launched, now its faster than inserting a card ticket.
As people get used to it it'll speed up and be faster than card tickets.
Same at shops, phone payments are now speeding up and faster than people getting their card out, tapping, putting card away again.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Not just at station gatelines - phones are making transactions slower everywhere.

They're really not.

 

[LYuen]

The are few people start looking for their card from the pocket when they are right at the gate, but there are more people start unlocking their phone then look for the wallet app at the gate.
Using mobile wallet correctly should be quick, but a lot of people just aren't considerate and do their part to make the process efficient.

However, using QR code tickets is inevitably slower and less reliable, as issues such as apps not loading, screen brightness, QR code size, sensitivity of the camera at the gate, etc, is coming into play.

 

[jon81uk]

Tapping contactless on TfL, I haven't noticed a difference between using Apple pay or the card directly But I have the card open ready and authorised. I think the slower people are those who only think to look at it to authorise right at the gate.

For the QR code tickets, is there any difference between reading the code from a screen and reading it from paper? Most National Rail tickets are moving towards QR code anyway.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

Interesting, the impression I get on trains is that staff QR code readers work much more quickly than PAYG card reading, which requires them to change mode on their mini-tablet, then adjust alignment, then look vaguely puzzled.

 

[jon81uk]

However, using QR code tickets is inevitably slower and less reliable, as issues such as apps not loading, screen brightness, QR code size, sensitivity of the camera at the gate, etc, is coming into play.

Scanning directly from the app or from Apple or Google Wallet tickets should solve all those issues. Its only if trying to scan directly from the PDF that it won't be as good.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The are few people start looking for their card from the pocket when they are right at the gate, but there are more people start unlocking their phone then look for the wallet app at the gate.
Using mobile wallet correctly should be quick, but a lot of people just aren't considerate and do their part to make the process efficient.

However, using QR code tickets is inevitably slower and less reliable, as issues such as apps not loading, screen brightness, QR code size, sensitivity of the camera at the gate, etc, is coming into play.

That's just people getting into the habit. Good apps automatically adjust the brightness when you open the ticket. If it doesn't I'd certainly buy elsewhere. Same with QR code size and the app not loading.
People, often but not always, have their ticket ready. People will learn to have their phone ready. But once they have it's no slower when you know what you're doing. Indeed I can beat a person with a card ticket through a barrier quite easily. A phone is certainly quicker than the paper (as opposed to card) tickets.

 

[WestAnglian]

Not just at station gatelines - phones are making transactions slower everywhere.

It's subjective, but using my Android seems much quicker than a physical card when using shop payment terminals. I've not noticed a delay when using it for contactless travel, either.

I completely agree with the OP about scanning a QR. It seems to take at least a couple of seconds. I don't know if a printout would be quicker.

 

[sor]

They're really not.

and it depends on the context. If my payment is over the limit for a physical card contactless transaction then it's going to take a lot longer to put card in and use PIN, compared to using my phone with no limit.

And both are likely still faster then cash for a lot of purchases

 

[py_megapixel]

It's subjective, but using my Android seems much quicker than a physical card when using shop payment terminals. I've not noticed a delay when using it for contactless travel, either.

That may well be true in theory, if only because Android won't trigger the request for a PIN that slows down some transactions.

Unfortunately I think that is massively outweighed by the inevitable fumbling around with that goes on with someone having to unlock their phone, find the right app, position their phone so that the NFC chip lines up with card reader (on some designs of phone and reader this can be quite awkward) and so on.

 

[Taunton]

The are few people start looking for their card from the pocket when they are right at the gate, but there are more people start unlocking their phone then look for the wallet app at the gate.
Using mobile wallet correctly should be quick, but a lot of people just aren't considerate and do their part to make the process efficient.

However, using QR code tickets is inevitably slower and less reliable, as issues such as apps not loading, screen brightness, QR code size, sensitivity of the camera at the gate, etc, is coming into play.

It was the same when one man buses first came along 60 years ago, especially older ladies would board, stop at the driver - and only then think to start opening their handbag for their money.

For gatelines, I am aware that Cubic spent a considerable amount of effort getting the sensitivity and other factors just right to absolutely minimise, down to milliseconds, the time between each Oyster Card presentation and opening the gate, where there are a number of processes and writing data both ways involved. All of this went into the calculations of how many gates to provide, which broadly seemed to work OK (apart from Waterloo mainline, which always seems grossly over-provided). All this seems now to be wasted with phones, QR codes, Apple Watches, etc, which have a processing time way in excess of what the Oyster team achieved.

 

[John R]

Unfortunately I think that is massively outweighed by the inevitable fumbling around with that goes on with someone having to unlock their phone, find the right app, position their phone so that the NFC chip lines up with card reader (on some designs of phone and reader this can be quite awkward) and so on.

Yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Unfortunately I think that is massively outweighed by the inevitable fumbling around with that goes on with someone having to unlock their phone, find the right app, position their phone so that the NFC chip lines up with card reader (on some designs of phone and reader this can be quite awkward) and so on.

That's not how mobile payments work. At least on iphone you double tap one button, it instantly scans your face and then you tap it to the machine. The whole process is less than half a second.

Whatever it is, it's a lot quicker than somebody fumbling about through their wallet/purse/handbag for physical money.

 

[jon81uk]

For gatelines, I am aware that Cubic spent a considerable amount of effort getting the sensitivity and other factors just right to absolutely minimise, down to milliseconds, the time between each Oyster Card presentation and opening the gate, where there are a number of processes and writing data both ways involved. All of this went into the calculations of how many gates to provide, which broadly seemed to work OK (apart from Waterloo mainline, which always seems grossly over-provided). All this seems now to be wasted with phones, QR codes, Apple Watches, etc, which have a processing time way in excess of what the Oyster team achieved.

I believe TfL have done everything they can to minimise delay with contactless payments and its only a fraction slower than Oyster. This is also another reason why TfL won't add QR readers to the gates, they are slower than Oyster/contactless.

 

[Horizon22]

That's not how mobile payments work. At least on iphone you double tap one button, it instantly scans your face and then you tap it to the machine. The whole process is less than half a second.

Whatever it is, it's a lot quicker than somebody fumbling about through their wallet/purse/handbag for physical money.

But in the context of this thread, that’s not a relevant comparison as you aren’t putting physical money into the gateline. You’re looking for a single CCST, which is normally nearby.

 

[island]

I find it takes around a second from presenting an Aztec ticket to the gate opening, which is materially slower than Oyster/contactless and somewhat slower than paper tickets. However, the delays are far outweighed by passengers who feel the need to wait for the ticket gate to close after the last passenger before presenting/inserting their own ticket.

 

[Ken X]

It does seem to be slower if you are not prepared. We still use Travel cards and find them easier than pratting about with my phone, although this is probably an age thing.
The fastest gate line I have seen was in Sweden when I was working in Stockholm around 1981 and using the underground. The old turnstile bar type barriers would unlock as you presented your ticket and you could push through at undiminished speed. With practice a reasonable jog could be managed. The fun came at month end as most people bought a monthly ticket which expired on the last day of the month. It was worth getting to the barriers a bit early on 1st of the next month to see how many commuters had forgotten and watch the practiced jog turned into an involuntary cartwheel over the firmly locked turnstile.

 

[185]

The delay could be the gate interface contacting a central server to check prior ticket usage, cancelled tickets, expiry etc & back which could slow matters down.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.

It's different for tickets and payments. You don't need to open anything to pay. Tickets do need the app to open, but that takes milliseconds as all the good ones need no Internet connection to open.
The "problem" is people not having their ticket ready. Which happens in whatever format they have it. Most new & novice travellers will have e-tickets too, so you're likely to see it more with e-tickets, but that doesn't mean the problem is the e-ticket.
Experienced travellers are either going through with e-tickets fast, so you would barely notice them or have sought out paper/card tickets for some reason (possibly tube access) but you interpret that as the tickets being quicker, not the people.

 

[najaB]

Not just at station gatelines - phones are making transactions slower everywhere.

That depends entirely on the phone, and how it is held. Some devices have a longer NFC range than others and some chipsets are faster than others as well, which means that you can wave the phone at the gate in some cases, but have to hold it right up to the reader for a second with others.

 

[LYuen]

Scanning directly from the app or from Apple or Google Wallet tickets should solve all those issues. Its only if trying to scan directly from the PDF that it won't be as good.

That's just people getting into the habit. Good apps automatically adjust the brightness when you open the ticket. If it doesn't I'd certainly buy elsewhere. Same with QR code size and the app not loading.
People, often but not always, have their ticket ready. People will learn to have their phone ready. But once they have it's no slower when you know what you're doing. Indeed I can beat a person with a card ticket through a barrier quite easily. A phone is certainly quicker than the paper (as opposed to card) tickets.

There are good ticket vendors out there I agree. Like Avanti and LNER issue tickets for Apple Pay and Google Wallet, Northern doesn't but it is easy and quick enough to find the ticket.
While when you buy tickets from Uber it only sends you PDF tickets. Especially when your tickets are for return journey of more than one traveller - page 1, 3, 5 and so on are for the first leg, page 2, 4, 6 are for the return.

Also, despite maybe 9 out of 10 people can use mobile ticket smoothly, the remaining 1 person having trouble will slow the flow down in peak hours.

 

[Garulon]

Stations could quite easily capture facial recognition at entry points and scan at exit, that way you wouldn't need gate lines at all and people could just leave the station.

 

[AM9]

and it depends on the context. If my payment is over the limit for a physical card contactless transaction then it's going to take a lot longer to put card in and use PIN, compared to using my phone with no limit.

And both are likely still faster then cash for a lot of purchases

The thread is about gatelines where PINs aren't necessary for them to open.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I don’t think the design of the gates particularly helps either. Most of them in Northern land have the reader either on a horizontal surface requiring the phone to be face down to scan a QR code, or on the front edge of the gate requiring the phone to be held vertically with the screen facing away.

Either way, the user can’t see the phone screen whilst scanning the ticket, so have no idea if manoeuvring the phone has caused the screen to rotate, if the code isn’t correctly aligned etc

If the scanners were like the ones we have on our buses, with the phone face up horizontally, it’d be loads easier

 

[Lampshade]

It's people that go right up to the gateline, stop dead, then get their phone out and find the relevant app/ticket.

Phone in hand, ticket on the screen, brightness up well in advance, I'm through just as quickly as a paper ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stations could quite easily capture facial recognition at entry points and scan at exit, that way you wouldn't need gate lines at all and people could just leave the station.

Have you ever used the junk that is the automatic facial recognition passport gates?

I do however think having a camera rather than laser based barcode scanning system (so less sensitive to brightness), with the phone scanned facing up, would speed things considerably.

 

[SECR263]

Having had to spend a few minutes at a gateline waiting for my better half it seemed to me that those using a phone to gain access, either by simply tapping, or by presenting a QR code, take longer on average than those simply tapping with a bank card or Oyster, or feeding in a card ticket.

Has anyone else noticed this? Even if the delay is a matter of a second or two per transaction, it could easily be reducing the flow capacity of gatelines at large stations to an extent that causes delays, particularly when a full train arrives at a terminus station.

What does slow down progress is the passenger who won't tap on until the gate has shut after the passenger in front.

 

[jon81uk]

There are good ticket vendors out there I agree. Like Avanti and LNER issue tickets for Apple Pay and Google Wallet, Northern doesn't but it is easy and quick enough to find the ticket.
While when you buy tickets from Uber it only sends you PDF tickets. Especially when your tickets are for return journey of more than one traveller - page 1, 3, 5 and so on are for the first leg, page 2, 4, 6 are for the return.

Also, despite maybe 9 out of 10 people can use mobile ticket smoothly, the remaining 1 person having trouble will slow the flow down in peak hours.

I used to use Greater Anglia, their app scanned easily, or there was a link in the email to download to Apple Wallet, which scans even easier. I now use Virgin ticketing (to get airmiles) and thats even better, link directly to Apple Wallet within the app.

I don’t think the design of the gates particularly helps either. Most of them in Northern land have the reader either on a horizontal surface requiring the phone to be face down to scan a QR code, or on the front edge of the gate requiring the phone to be held vertically with the screen facing away.

Either way, the user can’t see the phone screen whilst scanning the ticket, so have no idea if manoeuvring the phone has caused the screen to rotate, if the code isn’t correctly aligned etc

If the scanners were like the ones we have on our buses, with the phone face up horizontally, it’d be loads easier

Again thats only an issue if scanning from the PDF where it isn't formatted well. Scan from Wallet or directly in the app and you don't need to worry about it being aligned, its in a predictable place on the screen.