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SSR Redhill to St Ives Cornwall, via Surbiton?

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Frothy

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Hi there,

I've got a £70.95 Redhill to St Ives Cornwall Super Off-Peak Return for tomorrow Weds 10/4, route +VIA TAUNTON, with my 16-25 railcard.
I'll be travelling the whole way on the outbound portion, but on the return the following day, I need to get to Surbiton (or even better Thames Ditton or Hinchley Wood). What's the cheapest way to do this?

Thanks a bundle! :D
 
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bb21

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On your way back, you may go St Ives - Taunton - Bristol or Castle Cary - Westbury - Salisbury - Surbiton (break of journey) - London - Redhill for no extra cost.

Oddly I am not able to find a permitted route going from Reading to Basingstoke.
 

Frothy

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Thanks a lot!

I was a bit confused, as the shortest route between RDH and SIV doesn't seem to be permitted by any tickets, until I found this easement:
300227 Journeys routed Taunton may travel via Yeovil Junction. This easement applies in both directions

Is this why breaking the journey at Surbiton is permitted?

Cheers
 

bb21

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Break of journey is a condition associated with the ticket, not one associated with routeing. The ticket itself has no break of journey restriction so it is permitted.

I was just thinking that it is odd Redhill to St Ives does not appear to be permitted via the West of England line. This easement would permit it so you can also go St Ives - Exeter - Yeovil - Woking - Surbiton (break of journey) - London - Redhill.
 

soil

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It appears from map ZZ that you can take any route at all between Reading and London.

However this is somewhat debatable.
 

bb21

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I am unable to find a way to allow you to go via Reading and Surbiton. I might have missed something. I can't say whether going St Ives - Taunton - Reading - Basingstoke - Surbiton would be seen as reasonable, especially between Reading and Basingstoke. I suspect that Reading - Farnborough - Surbiton might be but strictly speaking it is not a permitted route AFAIK.
 

Urban Gateline

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I am unable to find a way to allow you to go via Reading and Surbiton. I might have missed something. I can't say whether going St Ives - Taunton - Reading - Basingstoke - Surbiton would be seen as reasonable, especially between Reading and Basingstoke. I suspect that Reading - Farnborough - Surbiton might be but strictly speaking it is not a permitted route AFAIK.

How about Reading to Staines, to Weybridge, to Surbiton? ;)
 

Urban Gateline

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IMO it's mapped on map ZZ. As is via Basingstoke....

That's convenient then! Also if it were to be valid from Farnborough via Guildford in some way then the OP could change there to get the Guildford via Cobham train to Hinchley Wood. However both Hinchley Wood and Thames Ditton are only a stop away from Surbiton and the fares are relatively low (the latter can be done on Oyster)
 

soil

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That's convenient then! Also if it were to be valid from Farnborough via Guildford in some way then the OP could change there to get the Guildford via Cobham train to Hinchley Wood. However both Hinchley Wood and Thames Ditton are only a stop away from Surbiton and the fares are relatively low (the latter can be done on Oyster)

The map is a bit of an unorthodox one:
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf#page=126

I don't think there would be a problem with this ticket in practice though.
 

soil

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How is a sleeper map relevant?

That's just the name of the map.

It's relevant because ZZ is one of the maps specified for a journey between St Ives and London.

That map is not the Routeing Guide's finest hour, and one of the things ATOC did when re-writing the Routeing Guide (for electronic use), but not bothering to publish it to the public, was to remove it from the list of maps. They haven't done this publicly, so it remains valid for the journeys it is specified for.

You could also argue about whether Reading - London can only mean Reading - Slough - Hayes & Harlington - Paddington, but my view, in the absence of any intermediate RPs, is you can do whatever you like, so Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Waterloo is entirely defensible.
 

clagmonster

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I was just thinking that it is odd Redhill to St Ives does not appear to be permitted via the West of England line. This easement would permit it so you can also go St Ives - Exeter - Yeovil - Woking - Surbiton (break of journey) - London - Redhill.
I would argue that the easement is not applicable. The routeing of this ticket is +Taunton, not Taunton. It is probably intended to apply, but with a literal interpretation of the rules this is not so.
 

bb21

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I would argue that the easement is not applicable. The routeing of this ticket is +Taunton, not Taunton. It is probably intended to apply, but with a literal interpretation of the rules this is not so.

OK, pedant. You win. :p

IMO it's mapped on map ZZ. As is via Basingstoke....

I cannot supply concrete evidence to say that it is 100% invalid, and agree that it can indeed be argued that it is using the logic you supplied. However as you have already noted, my opinion would be that map ZZ is best avoided.
 

soil

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I would argue that the easement is not applicable. The routeing of this ticket is +Taunton, not Taunton. It is probably intended to apply, but with a literal interpretation of the rules this is not so.

That is not correct.

✠ never forms part of a route.

The route is 'VIA TAUNTON'

✠ is the cross-London marker, which indicates that the ticket is valid to make a cross-London transfer by DLR, Tube or FCC:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#travelling_connect

If there is no ✠ marker, then the ticket almost certainly will not work the tube barriers, but that doesn't determine its validity, merely the practicalities of the matter.

The ✠ marker can be very confusing.

For example, a Brighton - Portsmouth Stations SVR, is priced £24, and routed 'ANY PERMITTED'. This ticket has no ✠ marker. A Brighton - Southampton Central SVR priced at £58 is also routed 'ANY PERMITTED' but it does have a ✠ marker.

The price difference reflects the fact that a permitted route for BTN - SOU is LONDON, but that BTN - Portsmouth Stations lacks that route.

It is however the 'Any Permitted' route, and the routeing guide, that determines this, and not the ✠ marker.

✠ does not change the routeing. There are some tickets routed '✠Any Permitted' where there are no permitted routes via London. This is not altered by the ✠, although in practice it is almost certain to be accepted as valid via London, particularly if priced accordingly. The correct routeing for such a ticket (where London is not a permitted route, but the TOC wants to offer a (possibly high-priced) via London fare), is '✠VIA LONDON', noting that if there is an 'Any Permitted' ticket on sale at a lower price, the Via London ticket would be valid by those routes also.

When performing a fares check, for example, '✠Any Pemitted' is the same as 'Any Permitted' - the routes are the same, so the fares are comparable.
 

455driver

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You could also argue about whether Reading - London can only mean Reading - Slough - Hayes & Harlington - Paddington, but my view, in the absence of any intermediate RPs, is you can do whatever you like, so Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Waterloo is entirely defensible.

So by using your logic-

Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Willesden jn - Euston

or

Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Willesden jn - Stratford - Liverpool st

are also valid!
 

soil

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So by using your logic-

Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Willesden jn - Euston

or

Reading - Basingstoke - Farnborough - Woking - Surbiton - Wimbledon - Clapham Junction - Willesden jn - Stratford - Liverpool st

are also valid!

Without doubt.

Not actually as unreasonable as you make it sound, either, on such a long journey the final destination in/around London makes very little difference to the fare.
 

Frothy

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In the end, I asked the guard on the service up to Exeter if I could travel via Yeovil Junction. I showed him the easement. He went off to find out, xwhen he came back he said that the easement had been there for the engineering in Reading and that the ticket wouldn't have been valid. I woke up at Reading, bought a ticket from Wokingham to Weybridge from a very unpleasant man in the booking office, and dealt with it.
 
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