• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Storm Desmond- Weekend 4th December

Status
Not open for further replies.

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,231
There are a number of farmers who think the railway is a substitute for a proper drainage system on their land.

But equally I'm sure we can all think of sections of drainage ditches alongside trackbeds that need digging out/and or clearing of weeds, reeds, etc so that they can do the job they were provided to do when the lines were built. However, in a lot of places work like this seems to have gone out of the window, along with clearing lineside vegetation, since the early 1980s.

The washout on the Cotswold Line in 2007 shown in the main picture on this press release http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/flooding-on-the-cotswold-line-service-update was basically down to lack of maintenance on the part of the railway.

The press release claims it was unprecedented flooding. However, something similar had clearly happened at this location on a previous occasion, because a series of large-diamater pipes had been laid by BR or the GWR through the shallow embankment to prevent water building up behind it in such a situation. The River Evenlode is just behind the hedge running at an angle from left to right, before passing under a narrow bridge at the right-hand end of the washout.

Unfortunately the pipes had not been kept clear of silt and other debris, so water spilling out of the river did indeed build up in the deluge and eventually the embankment failed. So great was the force involved that a number of the sections of pipe were fired out into the field beyond. They are the large objects sitting on the washed-out ballast and in the floodwater.

I am pleased to say that since then the replacement pipes put in place when the embankment was repaired have been kept clear of blockages but if the originals have been looked after there probably wouldn't have been a washout here in the first place.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
WCML in Carlisle this morning

https://twitter.com/sped98/status/673441018986029056/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

gimmea50anyday

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
3,456
Location
Back Cab
They were planning on splitting 1G21 at the buffet car, leaving the buffet and the firsts stranded but they managed to negotiate the traee in the end. A pendolino was indeed used at carlisle as a hotel overnight as the folk onboard were unable to travel any further or get back to where they started
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,004
But equally I'm sure we can all think of sections of drainage ditches alongside trackbeds that need digging out/and or clearing of weeds, reeds, etc so that they can do the job they were provided to do when the lines were built. However, in a lot of places work like this seems to have gone out of the window, along with clearing lineside vegetation, since the early 1980s.

The washout on the Cotswold Line in 2007 shown in the main picture on this press release http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/flooding-on-the-cotswold-line-service-update was basically down to lack of maintenance on the part of the railway.

The press release claims it was unprecedented flooding. However, something similar had clearly happened at this location on a previous occasion, because a series of large-diamater pipes had been laid by BR or the GWR through the shallow embankment to prevent water building up behind it in such a situation. The River Evenlode is just behind the hedge running at an angle from left to right, before passing under a narrow bridge at the right-hand end of the washout.

Unfortunately the pipes had not been kept clear of silt and other debris, so water spilling out of the river did indeed build up in the deluge and eventually the embankment failed. So great was the force involved that a number of the sections of pipe were fired out into the field beyond. They are the large objects sitting on the washed-out ballast and in the floodwater.

I am pleased to say that since then the replacement pipes put in place when the embankment was repaired have been kept clear of blockages but if the originals have been looked after there probably wouldn't have been a washout here in the first place.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
WCML in Carlisle this morning

https://twitter.com/sped98/status/673441018986029056/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Drainage is another ongoing sore point - back in the 1980s, in British Rail days, the permanent way teams just knew where things were, there wasn't always drawing and plans, modifications weren't noted, but the local teams were able to keep on top of the situation.

Privatisation blew all that away and there's a lot of areas where we have absolutely no idea where the main drains are, when they were last inspected/maintained, what state they're in and as a result, flooding does tend to expose the weaknesses in both the drains and in Network Rail's knowledge of them.

Things are slowly getting better - we're now more aware of where drains are, there's a train that goes around cleaning drains, emptying traps and investigating forgotten drainage systems.

I'm reluctant to say vegetation clearance has got worse, in some areas we're spending a lot of money and getting brilliant results - Phil Verster's the man when it comes to all that, spending less on cutting down trees than we were spending on TDA bills for leaf fall, but 1980 was only 15 years or so since the end of steam, when frequent track side fires used to keep trackside vegetation under control, we're now closer to 50 years since the end of steam and tracksides have become very mature woodland in many areas, with massive problems from unstable rooting, leaf fall, trees falling down and so on.

We need to get back to the tidy grass and bushy tracksides, but it's unpopular in so many areas. If we sort out the trackside vegetation issues, I'm sure drainage will be vastly improved too.
 

Saint66

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2013
Messages
807
Location
Herts
Virgin Trains ‏@VirginTrains 5m5 minutes ago
#VTUPDATE We are not likely to run services between Carlisle and Scotland tomorrow, passengers will be able to travel once lines re-open
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,684
Location
Another planet...
Whats happened to the pax from that 390 at CAR? Not many places for them to go is there?

Surprised there were reports of the train being cold, surely they could've just stuck the pan up and kept the unit connected... Or would that have required staff on board (and awake?)
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
39,059
Location
Yorks
Tyne Valley line should be OK as most of the line is up and above the river. Most of the flooding comes from the farmland. Last year the line was flooded between Riding Mill and Corbridge due to run off from the fields.

Farmers should be encouraged to plant lines of trees along the contour of the hills. These make it easier for surface water penetrate the ground and reduce sheet water run-off.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
39,059
Location
Yorks
Ahh but could you imagine that in leaf-fall season. It would be slipery to say the least.
Sam

Ah, but this would be somewhat further up the hill, away from the railway. It's better to deal with water before it starts flooding the railway.
 

gavin

Member
Joined
25 Dec 2006
Messages
1,006
@Virgin_TrainsEC

Due to a broken down train between York and Darlington, some lines are blocked.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Redcar
@Virgin_TrainsEC

Due to a broken down train between York and Darlington, some lines are blocked.

Looks like 1S45 blocking the down main north of Thirsk, all down traffic being routed on to the slows between Thirsk and Longlands Jn.
 

matacaster

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2013
Messages
1,603
NR press release

The West Coast main line north of Carlisle will remain closed for several days after eight feet of water flooded the railway.

The depth of the water, around two miles north of Carlisle station, has reached its peak but is not expected to clear until Tuesday. A full assessment of the damage will take place as soon as the water recedes and everything done to reopen the railway as quickly as possible. A number of safety-critical cabinets, which house complex electrical equipment, are currently submerged and will have to rebuilt once it is safe to do so.

Network Rail has used a helicopter to inspect the railway north of Carlisle looking for further damage caused by flooding and high winds. Network Rail’s orange army on the ground has been working 24 hours a day to clear trees, landslips and repair flood damage to keep as much as possible of the railway open.

A number of emergency speed restrictions - which help to keep passengers and railway staff safe - are in place as the network recovers from the impact of Storm Desmond.

Martin Frobisher, Network Rail's route managing director, said: "The unprecedented amount of rainfall and high winds have taken a significant toll on the railway and we are working round the clock to keep as much of the network open and repair the damage that has been caused.

"North of Carlisle station we have to wait for eight feet of water to recede before we can carry out extensive safety checks and repairs – including rebuilding a host of complex electrical and signalling equipment which is currently underwater. This, coupled with dozens of other sites which have been flooded or damaged, means we have a lot of work to do to ensure the railway is safe and able to be used.

"We care about passengers and will do everything we can to reopen the West Coast main line as quickly as possible. I thank passengers for their patience during this difficult time and can assure them we are working with the train operators to provide the best possible information. I urge anyone planning to travel in the north west in the coming days to check for the latest information before they set off."

Railway lines in the region are being checked by trains manned by the orange army with chainsaws and equipment to remove fallen trees and make repairs.

Passengers should check www.nationalrail.co.uk or with their train operator for the latest information before travelling.
Contact information

Media Relations (North West & West Midlands)
0161 880 3142
[email protected]
About Network Rail

Network Rail owns, manages and develops Britain’s railway – the 20,000 miles of track, 40,000 bridges and viaducts, and the thousands of signals, level crossings and stations (the largest of which we also run). In partnership with train operators we help people take more than 1.6bn journeys by rail every year - double the number of 1996 - and move hundreds of millions of tonnes of freight, saving almost 8m lorry journeys. We’re investing £38bn in the railway by 2019 to deliver more frequent, more reliable, safer services and brighter and better stations.
@networkrailPR #BetterRailway

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk
www.BetterRailway.co.uk
Downloads
Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle

View | Download

Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle
Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle - 2

View | Download

Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle - 2
Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle - 1

View | Download

Flooding on the West Coast main line north of Carlisle - 1
Follow us

Twitter
YouTube
RSS

News by region

National
Scotland
North East & East Midlands
North West & West Midlands
Wales & West
London & South East
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,707
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Sounds like WCML capacity will be reduced north of Carlisle even when the route reopens, because of signalling damage.
Hopefully Preston-Carlisle can re-open fairly soon.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,396
Location
Bolton
They were planning on splitting 1G21 at the buffet car, leaving the buffet and the firsts stranded but they managed to negotiate the traee in the end. A pendolino was indeed used at carlisle as a hotel overnight as the folk onboard were unable to travel any further or get back to where they started

The photo of the poor lady was her sat in Standard as well! I would struggle to imagine a less comfy place to sleep than a Pendo Standard seat!
 

142094

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Messages
8,789
Location
Newcastle
Surprisingly a lot of the north east has escaped the worst of the storm, indeed there wasn't a great deal of rainfall yesterday. However, with a lot of the catchment area of the Tyne being west Northumberland and Cumbria, the river has risen to the highest I've seen in a few years. Could have been a whole lot worse for the Tyne Valley line if the same amount of rain had fallen east of Hexham as did over on the west coast.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,396
Location
Bolton
The pacer seat you can at least lie sideways on. I suppose an 'ironing board' Electrostar seat poses a bigger challenge! I hope that the train had power for heating, sockets and toilets etc. And I'm not sure how nice the floor would be either, given the amount of time I've spent with my backside parked on a 390 floor recently!
 

gimmea50anyday

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
3,456
Location
Back Cab
WCML gonna be entertaining.

Power failure Lancaster although they can run trains the station has no power.

Its possible to run thru to carlisle but it is not possible to go any further north. Also a big tree that despite its size failed to unsettle an EC HST is blocking the tyne valley!
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
4,119
Has there been any disruption to the Manchester services? I am only asking as I am heading on one tomorrow.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,310
Location
Fenny Stratford
The pacer seat you can at least lie sideways on. I suppose an 'ironing board' Electrostar seat poses a bigger challenge! I hope that the train had power for heating, sockets and toilets etc. And I'm not sure how nice the floor would be either, given the amount of time I've spent with my backside parked on a 390 floor recently!

more comfortable on the floor than the seat ;)
 

trainophile

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2010
Messages
6,216
Location
Wherever I lay my hat
Was the Pendolino actually in Carlisle station? If so, presumably passengers could leave the train and use the facilities on the station? It might have been preferable to open up whatever waiting rooms/coffee shops that are there (if any), which would at least have heating on. Unless the water level had reached the platforms. Edit: Surely not, or the train would be flooded too!
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,840
Location
Scotland
It might have been preferable to open up whatever waiting rooms/coffee shops that are there (if any), which would at least have heating on.
I suspect there may not have been issues with power in the station given the number of homes without power today.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top