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SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

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BestWestern

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Well they made it compusory in Australia. I don't know how well that works.

I can't see how that could possibly work, how do you know who hasn't voted in an anonymous ballot? Unless of course the idea is that anything less than a 100% return makes the whole vote void, which is essentially a ban on industrial action by the back door.
 
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pompeyfan

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While ABDO sounds intriguing it isn't really relevant to the current discussion regarding strike action by guards, expecta 'we told you so' press release from the RMT in due course regarding the lack of door release buttons for guards.

Very true, sorry sir!
 

Matt Taylor

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I can't see how that could possibly work, how do you know who hasn't voted in an anonymous ballot? Unless of course the idea is that anything less than a 100% return makes the whole vote void, which is essentially a ban on industrial action by the back door.

By checking the electoral register to see who has presented themselves at their polling place, those who haven't are the ones who haven't voted,
 

BestWestern

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By checking the electoral register to see who has presented themselves at their polling place, those who haven't are the ones who haven't voted,

Ah, so we're talking the electorate, not in terms of industrial ballots! I had a feeling. A rather different scenario!
 

footprints

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Interesting that when the RMT were exalting their "overwhelming" mandate of 46% to continue strike action on SWR last week, they seemed to forget to mention that staff on the Island Line voted against this by 3:1.
 

BestWestern

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Interesting that when the RMT were exalting their "overwhelming" mandate of 46% to continue strike action on SWR last week, they seemed to forget to mention that staff on the Island Line voted against this by 3:1.

Well they would do, why on earth would they feel the need to take part in what, to them, is essentially a dispute at another TOC? I don't think that's surprising at all really, and it certainly doesn't serve to undermine the vote on the mainland.
 

footprints

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Well they would do, why on earth would they feel the need to take part in what, to them, is essentially a dispute at another TOC? I don't think that's surprising at all really, and it certainly doesn't serve to undermine the vote on the mainland.

And yet there was 100% backing for strike action in the previous ballot on a turnout of 83%...
 

theironroad

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I'm a little surprised that the island line voted against, as I could see that as a easy target for doo.

The stock is long overdue replacement and it's a simple line to operate and one that has come under threat of closure as it requires large subsidy.
 

BestWestern

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I'm a little surprised that the island line voted against, as I could see that as a easy target for doo.

The stock is long overdue replacement and it's a simple line to operate and one that has come under threat of closure as it requires large subsidy.

Indeed it is, however at the moment anything other than plodding on as normal seems a very long way off.
 

DelW

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... it's a simple line to operate and one that has come under threat of closure as it requires large subsidy.
The main argument for keeping it open is the benefit to island tourism, so disrupting or shutting the line on a major holiday weekend would only play into the hands of the "close it down and run buses instead" campaign.
 

theironroad

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In the first ballot, 5 guards voted and all 5 voted for strike action. In the second ballot this month 4 of the 6 eligible voted and 1 voted for strike action.

The ballots are all conducted by the electoral reform society I think, so should be accurate.
 

387star

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Do Island Line guards open and close the doors? Do they get the same training as mainland guards?
 

theironroad

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Well the one I was on a couple of weeks ago, the guard did the doors and revenue. At the pier he was doing a ticket when the train had stopped, and stopped and stopped

Not sure about training, not sure who owns the infrastructure either come to think of it.
 

DelW

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Do Island Line guards open and close the doors? Do they get the same training as mainland guards?
The 1938 stock has always had guard operated doors, as did all LU stock up to about 1960 (from memory so subject to correction by anyone who knows better). I think the 1967 Vic Line stock was the first to be DOO (in fact largely automatic).

Since the stock is unique it's likely the training is too, plus there are probably bespoke procedures for e.g. train failure on Ryde Pier.

Well the one I was on a couple of weeks ago, the guard did the doors and revenue. At the pier he was doing a ticket when the train had stopped, and stopped and stopped

Not sure about training, not sure who owns the infrastructure either come to think of it.
Under SWT the infrastructure was said to have been transferred to the TOC (Island Line) , but I don't know how that was affected by the change from Stagecoach to First/MTR control.
 

BestWestern

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Since the stock is unique it's likely the training is too, plus there are probably bespoke procedures for e.g. train failure on Ryde Pier.

Under SWT the infrastructure was said to have been transferred to the TOC (Island Line) , but I don't know how that was affected by the change from Stagecoach to First/MTR control.

Peculiarities of certain locations are pretty standard stuff, the overall Rulebook still applies but with 'local instructions' for those places where certain procedures are necessary. The Severn Tunnel is a good example, there are numerous others nationwide. Was the '38 stock ever modified to include door egress equipment, or does it retain the standard Underground layout of emergency escape via the cabs? If that's the case, it's a pretty easy situation to control; a crew member at each end and your pax are contained. I can't imagine many would attempt a swift exit whilst sat on Ryde Pier anyway somehow! :o There are also a multitude of TOC-specific rules these days, SWR no doubt have an 'appendix to the Rulebook' and no doubt it includes instructions about not crossing the open gangway between '38 stock cars, and so on.

As for the infrastructure, I very much doubt NR would harbour any remote desire to have it back!
 

pompeyfan

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Peculiarities of certain locations are pretty standard stuff, the overall Rulebook still applies but with 'local instructions' for those places where certain procedures are necessary. The Severn Tunnel is a good example, there are numerous others nationwide. Was the '38 stock ever modified to include door egress equipment, or does it retain the standard Underground layout of emergency escape via the cabs? If that's the case, it's a pretty easy situation to control; a crew member at each end and your pax are contained. I can't imagine many would attempt a swift exit whilst sat on Ryde Pier anyway somehow! :o There are also a multitude of TOC-specific rules these days, SWR no doubt have an 'appendix to the Rulebook' and no doubt it includes instructions about not crossing the open gangway between '38 stock cars, and so on.

As for the infrastructure, I very much doubt NR would harbour any remote desire to have it back!

Island line are unusual in that you have driver/guards, guard/signallers, driver/MOMs, or certainly they used to.
 

XDM

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And fitters can drive trains from depot into the platforms, ready for driver to take over. Or they certainly used to two years ago.
 

pompeyfan

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The rumour mill has been firing on all cylinders this week, with the main opinion being that the dispute may nearly be over already.

SWR have agreed quite a reasonable pay increase for their guards (and also for all of their platform staff etc who come under collective bargaining).

It had been said no payrise would be forthcoming until the dispute had been resolved, and yet here we are.

I’m not an employment law expert but I’d have thought you couldn’t refuse a payrise to one grade if you’re in dispute with a different grade under the same negotiations though?
 

HH

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Pay rises are completely at an employer's discretion, so you've proved the first part of that sentence!
 

HH

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Intriguing, was this 'mild' ato in the franchise agreement or is it something above and beyond? And that latter point means that driver open guard close is an entirely viable method of operation
I believe that this is SWR's aim - the current belief is that this saves time at every station allowing for timetable improvements and/or more resilient performance.
 

infobleep

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Interesting that when the RMT were exalting their "overwhelming" mandate of 46% to continue strike action on SWR last week, they seemed to forget to mention that staff on the Island Line voted against this by 3:1.
I personally don't see the difference. It's a vote in both cases.
 

387star

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Most guards will remain as traditional guards so some may not see any need for continued action?

All is quiet at London northwestern /West midlands railway but they have new trains on there way..

Meanwhile gwr get a possibly large pay rise to match HSS across West and ltv with no doo extension
 

theironroad

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The rumour mill has been firing on all cylinders this week, with the main opinion being that the dispute may nearly be over already.

SWR have agreed quite a reasonable pay increase for their guards (and also for all of their platform staff etc who come under collective bargaining).

It had been said no payrise would be forthcoming until the dispute had been resolved, and yet here we are.

I’m not an employment law expert but I’d have thought you couldn’t refuse a payrise to one grade if you’re in dispute with a different grade under the same negotiations though?

Well as the guards pay settlement was due on 1 October last year, glad it didn't take much longer than 6 months :)

Drivers were due to start talks from 1 April this year and have been warned already that the talks are likely to be protracted :(
 

theironroad

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As a moderator has suggested this should be the active thread for further SWR guard/DOO comments etc, I'll update I with:

Next strike action is 00:01 Thursday 21st to 23:59 Saturday 23rd June.

Edit: I've updated the dates in the thread title.
 

Goldfish62

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As a moderator has suggested this should be the active thread for further SWR guard/DOO comments etc, I'll update I with:

Next strike action is 00:01 Thursday 21st to 23:59 Saturday 23rd June.

Edit: I've updated the dates in the thread title.
If anyone is wondering the relevance of the dates they are the three busiest days of Royal Ascot. Queues for the 6-8 tph after racing finishes on the Saturday can be up to two hours long
 

infobleep

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Does this mean the talks broke down? Does anyone know what points they couldn't agree on?
 

infobleep

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Given the issues Network Rail are facing elsewhere, I would imagine the strike timetables won't be load until late the evening before.
 

theironroad

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If anyone is wondering the relevance of the dates they are the three busiest days of Royal Ascot. Queues for the 6-8 tph after racing finishes on the Saturday can be up to two hours long

I'd be very surprised if the Waterloo to Reading route via Ascot is not at the top of the priority list when deploying contingency guards, though other routes may be sacrificed or reduced.
 
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