SWT - first class travel on standard ticket

[nlogax]

Stumbled upon this Twitter account the other day.

https://twitter.com/FreeSWT1stClass

This is someone attempting to demonstrate how easy it apparently is to get away with travelling first class on peak Surbiton <> Waterloo services with standard tickets. Right now I'm watching a conversation unfold between this person and a friend of mine who does pay for a first class ticket on similar local SWT services.

I've searched this forum and have found conflicting information on this topic. Could someone here please clarify bylaws 18 and/or 19, and how SWT enforce prevention of unauthorised first class travel in terms of fines, fees and potential criminal action? Your help is appreciated - I'm unsure whether some of the statements coming from this account are accurate (they claim they're a lawyer, so your guess is as good as mine..)

Thanks.

 

[Be3G]

SWT's policy for upgrading to first class seems to be, based on my experience of asking for upgrades at ticket offices on a few occasions, to instruct customers to purchase an upgrade from the on-train staff. This has been the case for season ticket ‘excesses’ (not technically an excess but you know what I mean), gold card supplements, and weekend first. I can therefore easily see why there's a notion that first class on SWT is free!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is interesting, as under the Penalty Fares rules on-board upgrading is not permitted - LM's notices make that very clear.

Neil

 

[Class377]

If I was a guard on SWT, I'd suddenly decide to stop following policy and report those sitting in 1st on a standard ticket for RoRA prosecutions, given intent is clearly established on that account!

EDIT: It does somewhat remind me of the hedge fund manager who was eventually caught after a number of years - admittedly on a smaller scale - and I think he'll get a nasty shock at some point. SWT might not be replying to him but I have a feeling they're feeding it on to managers and if I worked for the prosecutions department I would not be willing to offer a settlement as this seems like an ideal case to send out a big message.

I assume a lawyer with a recordable conviction under RoRA would find thier job very difficult!

 

[VauxhallandI]

Does his twitter page not state that it is fictional and/or based on observations of others?

 

[Class377]

It claims it's hypothetical (presumably to cover himself), but if someone was caught on a train which he claims to be on, and he is proven to be running the twitter account, I can see that being useful in establishing intent.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It claims it's hypothetical (presumably to cover himself), but if someone was caught on a train which he claims to be on, and he is proven to be running the twitter account, I can see that being useful in establishing intent.

Indeed.

However intent outside of the railway in twitter land is the usual meaning of intent not the railway intent.

 

[GodAtum]

I find there are more consistent ticket checks in the morning. In the evening, there are none so a lot of people sit in 1st class without a valid ticket. This is from Guildford - Waterloo.

Sometimes when there are ticket checks, the guard lets them get away with it. The most common excuse is "I was trying to find the front 5 coaches so i can get off at Clapham. I got here (the front carriage with 1st class) but cannot walk back as there are no seats".

What really annoys me is people walking up the train to the front door and blocking the isles.

 

[Deerfold]

I find there are more consistent ticket checks in the morning. In the evening, there are none so a lot of people sit in 1st class without a valid ticket. This is from Guildford - Waterloo.

Sometimes when there are ticket checks, the guard lets them get away with it. The most common excuse is "I was trying to find the front 5 coaches so i can get off at Clapham. I got here (the front carriage with 1st class) but cannot walk back as there are no seats".

What really annoys me is people walking up the train to the front door and blocking the isles.

The only Isle I can think of on SWT is off Portsmouth.

 

[Haywain]

What really annoys me is people walking up the train to the front door and blocking the isles.

That's just scilly.

 

[Stigy]

I believe SWT do conduct plain clothes patrols on such trains using their revenue staff.

In respect of the inial question. They'd more often than not use Byelaw 19 for enforcement as it's far easier to prove and requires no intent. They would use the RoRA 1889 if they belived there was sufficient evidence to prove intent to avoid payment. Unfortunately unless somebody coughs to it and says they do it all the time, intent can be very hard to prove for 1st Class abuse.

 

[83G/84D]

That's just scilly.

Clever but they are the Isles of Scilly not the Scilly Isles to be precise.

 

[455driver]

Why are you talking about stupid Islands?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Clever but they are the Isles of Scilly not the Scilly Isles to be precise.

Actually there is a Scilly Isles roundabout between Esher and Surbiton!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Why are you talking about stupid Islands?

Because someone wrote "isle" instead of "aisle" and now the world's gone stir crazy.

 

[455driver]

Because someone wrote "isle" instead of "aisle" and now the world's gone stir crazy.

Um Scilly isles, stupid Islands!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Um Scilly isles, stupid Islands!

Guess I land another sense of humour failure!

 

[jon0844]

I sea there are a lot of bad jokes here that add nothing to the thread!

 

[Tomnick]

All wight, that's enough .

 

[Bishopstone]

Man up!

 

[andythebrave]

Enough of this pie in the Skye, we run the risk of getting Eigg on our faces if we Canna stop

 

[najaB]

The Foulness of these puns are making me Mull over participating in this thread.

 

[Tomnick]

This thread really has gone to the Dogs - it's really going against the Grain.

 

[DelayRepay]

Isle have to report this thread to the Moderator then you'll all be Deadmans.

 

[nlogax]

Thanks all, I guess it's just a case of waiting and seeing if RP catch up with him. Fully expecting this morning's tweet will be from the 7.08 again.

 

[Tibbs]

If I was a guard on SWT, I'd suddenly decide to stop following policy and report those sitting in 1st on a standard ticket for RoRA prosecutions, given intent is clearly established on that account!

/snip

In that case, what about those of us who get refused sale of the upgrade at the station and told the only way we can upgrade is on board?

And more importantly, how are you going to prove the identity of the tweeter?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only Isle I can think of on SWT is off Portsmouth.

Or Portsmouth itself, which is on Portsea Island.

So I'm told, it's part of what makes people from Portsmouth so odd, the island within an island mentality!*




*I may or may not have been told this by a Southampton native

 

[Stigy]

In that case, what about those of us who get refused sale of the upgrade at the station and told the only way we can upgrade is on board?

And more importantly, how are you going to prove the identity of the tweeter?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Or Portsmouth itself, which is on Portsea Island.

So I'm told, it's part of what makes people from Portsmouth so odd, the island within an island mentality!*




*I may or may not have been told this by a Southampton native

Does the Isle of Wight count?

 

[Tibbs]

Does the Isle of Wight count?

That was what I assumed Deerfold was referring to.

 

[Deerfold]

That was what I assumed Deerfold was referring to.

I was.

Though I'm beginning to wish I'd never started it.

 

[najaB]

Though I'm beginning to wish I'd never started it.

Just give a Yell and Fair Isle stop with the puns