Terror attack close to/outside Parliament

[WelshBluebird]

...except that if the victim was bleeding badly it might have been more useful to staunch the flow rather than to keep pumping him dry.

The priorities are always the airway / breathing.
If you can do something quickly to stop any bleeding then great (maybe a makeshift bandage or tourniquet), but helping breathing / giving CPR is always more important.

 

[backontrack]

The priorities are always the airway / breathing.
If you can do something quickly to stop any bleeding then great (maybe a makeshift bandage or tourniquet), but helping breathing / giving CPR is always more important.

Indeed. DrABC:

Danger
Response
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

If you can do anything about blood after that, then great.

 

[RichmondCommu]

At least I get other news this morning, and there are other programs on TV (BBC anyway didn't have anything else)

I wonder how you would now feel if you'd been knocked flying on Westminster Bridge yesterday afternoon. Would you still feel that awful afternoon was a non event?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how you would now feel if you'd been knocked flying on Westminster Bridge yesterday afternoon. Would you still feel that awful afternoon was a non event?

It wasn't a non-event, but it was a relatively minor attack (non-terrorist versions of which do occur in London from time to time). Treating it as hugely more than that just gives the terrorists publicity.

Let's put it this way - compared with 9/11 I'm not scared.

 

[GB]

It wasn't a non-event, but it was a relatively minor attack (non-terrorist versions of which do occur in London from time to time). Treating it as hugely more than that just gives the terrorists publicity.

Let's put it this way - compared with 9/11 I'm not scared.

4 people were murdered in violent and quick succession with the attacker being shot dead by police... many more people have been injured. When did the last "non-terrorist" version occur in London or any other UK place?

...and if you wan't to talk about relatively, all terrorists attacks have been "minor" pre and post 9/11...doesn't make them any less worthy of attention.

 

[Simon11]

Indeed. DrABC:

Danger
Response
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

If you can do anything about blood after that, then great.

Circulation has been removed for a few years. The reason is that there is no point checking for circulation if the casualty isn't breathing.

When I teach young people, I actually teach DRsAB- the s stands for shout (i.e. get help).

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wonder how you would now feel if you'd been knocked flying on Westminster Bridge yesterday afternoon. Would you still feel that awful afternoon was a non event?

Two women were killed outside Withington Hospital last week after an 80-year-old man ran them over by accident.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/upd...ospital-crash-have-life-threatening-injuries/

Other than a brief "meh", nobody really commented much on that. And that incident was just as traumatic.

Exactly. And if you do put large gates in, one possible effect could be that you end up with queues of people in front of the gates, creating a new potential target.

There has to be a clearing area between the public bit and the secure bit. I normally enter Parliament through Portcullis House, because it's easier, and there's the area immediately before security where you could do quite a lot of damage if you were so minded. It's unavoidable, really.

You simply cannot stop bad people doing bad things. You can make it harder- and in this case they did, he was shot dead feet from the perimeter- but you can't ever stop it entirely.

 

[OneOffDave]

Circulation has been removed for a few years. The reason is that there is no point checking for circulation if the casualty isn't breathing.

When I teach young people, I actually teach DRsAB- the s stands for shout (i.e. get help).

The version I was taught this week was <C> ABC where the first C is catastrophic haemorrhage. If you don't try and stop that if occurring, then there's no point doing CPR as all you'll be doing is pumping the blood out of them

I really recommend checking out http://citizenaid.org/ as it's got useful advice for any kind of incident with a number of casualties

 

[Steveman]

The dead terrorist has been named as Khalid Masood living in Birmingham, several convictions for possession of weapons, GBH and assault.
At 52 years of age quite a bit older than the usual British Islamic terrorist.
Fitness fanatic, father of 3 and a muslim convert.
English teacher at some stage !

 

[Bletchleyite]

4 people were murdered in violent and quick succession with the attacker being shot dead by police... many more people have been injured. When did the last "non-terrorist" version occur in London or any other UK place?

Car accidents in which 4 die are relatively common.

...and if you wan't to talk about relatively, all terrorists attacks have been "minor" pre and post 9/11...doesn't make them any less worthy of attention.

If you give them too much attention then they win. Treat them as common criminals and move on. I'm not scared if they are that minor. Crossing the road, or cycling, in London is much riskier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There has to be a clearing area between the public bit and the secure bit. I normally enter Parliament through Portcullis House, because it's easier, and there's the area immediately before security where you could do quite a lot of damage if you were so minded. It's unavoidable, really.

FWIW I went on a tour of Parliament a couple of weeks ago, and I noticed quite a number of security flaws, both in terms of where he got in and in terms of the supposedly airport style security, as well as utterly incompetent crowd management. It occurred to me that it would not have been difficult to misuse the flaws in some way. I won't post their precise nature here to avoid misuse, but I do think they need to seriously look at their procedures.

I hope it will now get an overhaul. I also think it will be necessary to apply the airport style security to EVERYONE, even the PM.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how you would now feel if you'd been knocked flying on Westminster Bridge yesterday afternoon. Would you still feel that awful afternoon was a non event?

People are hit by (incompetently rather than maliciously driven) motor vehicles in London all the time.

 

[AlterEgo]

FWIW I went on a tour of Parliament a couple of weeks ago, and I noticed quite a number of significant security flaws, both in terms of where he got in and in terms of the supposedly airport style security, as well as utterly incompetent crowd management.

I hope it will now get an overhaul. I also think it will be necessary to apply the airport style security to EVERYONE, even the PM.

I walk past this site every single day, as I work literally up the road.

What's the solution to the gated entrance? (Where the attacker got in)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I walk past this site every single day, as I work literally up the road.

What's the solution to the gated entrance? (Where the attacker got in)

I'd have to go back and look at it again to comment, to be honest, I don't remember the precise layout, I just recall it occurring to me at the time that it was flawed. But as I said I don't want to go into specific vulnerabilities on here because they could be misused.

Essentially most of it seems to rely on the quick reaction of the armed Police rather than more absolute security features that physically prevent anyone entering until authorised. That's really sub-optimal.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Two women were killed outside Withington Hospital last week after an 80-year-old man ran them over by accident.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/upd...ospital-crash-have-life-threatening-injuries/

Other than a brief "meh", nobody really commented much on that. And that incident was just as traumatic.

Who dismissed the incident as "meh"? You?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Who dismissed the incident as "meh"?

I don't remember seeing national protests about 89-year-old men being banned from driving after crashing through several bollards and killing two people.

It barely registered on the national news.

My opinion? It's horrendously sad but it happens all the time. Cars are dangerous things, but nobody has the political courage to restrict access to them.

 

[RichmondCommu]

People are hit by (incompetently rather than maliciously driven) motor vehicles in London all the time.

Are they? Do you have the statistics to back this up? Not only that but lets not start comparing yesterdays despicable act with an accident that might take place on the streets of London.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't remember seeing national protests about 89-year-old men being banned from driving after crashing through several bollards and killing two people.

It barely registered on the national news.

What has a national protest got to do with this? Have there been any protests on the streets of our country today? I agree that kind of tragedy should be reported more prominently but that's the media for you.

 

[RichmondCommu]

My opinion? It's horrendously sad but it happens all the time. Cars are dangerous things, but nobody has the political courage to restrict access to them.

Do terrorists incidents happen all the time? Is that really your opinion.

Let's not blame the use of cars for what happened yesterday. Instead lets blame a terrorist who set out to kill as many innocent people as he could.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do terrorists incidents happen all the time? Is that really your opinion.

Let's not blame the use of cars for what happened yesterday. Instead lets blame a terrorist who set out to kill as many innocent terrorists as he could.

Did you really mean to say in the last part of your posting where I have emboldened it?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Did you really mean to say in the last part of your posting where I have emboldened it?

No Paul I didn't. Indeed it was a mistake that I've now corrected. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they? Do you have the statistics to back this up?

No, but car accidents in which pedestrians are hit by cars occur in London - have a Google for some reports.

Not only that but lets not start comparing yesterdays despicable act with an accident that might take place on the streets of London.

The effect is the same. Other than that we need to prosecute some common criminals, of course.

Give them any more credit than that and you let them win.

 

[NSEFAN]

No, but car accidents in which pedestrians are hit by cars occur in London - have a Google for some reports.



The effect is the same. Other than that we need to prosecute some common criminals, of course.

Give them any more credit than that and you let them win.

Terrorist attacks will get more publicity than car crashes because they are extremely rare compared to car crashes. It's the same with reporting on train crashes, etc. I agree with your sentiment that it's irrational to be more afraid of terrorism than bad drivers, although apart from extensive press coverage of the incident itself, it seems that for most it's business as usual. Stiff upper lip and all that.

 

[Busaholic]

Just to show how random these things can be i.e. the 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time' factor. The three injured French students were from Concarneau in Brittany, which is twinned with Penzance in Cornwall, where I live. A local press report named the college involved and the name of the principal. It was then I realised that I'd met him several times when he was organising work experience for his students in Penzance over a few years; indeed, I'd agreed to employ his daughter for a week. It's a small world, but it was heartening to read that all three students were expected to be well enough to return to France by tomorrow.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No, but car accidents in which pedestrians are hit by cars occur in London - have a Google for some reports.



The effect is the same. Other than that we need to prosecute some common criminals, of course.

Give them any more credit than that and you let them win.

A traffic accident is exactly that and I certainly don't worry about crossing the road or walking along the pavement. What happened yesterday is the complete opposite in that a terrorist set out to kill as many people as he could and to attack our democracy. The Government has a duty to treat this with the utmost seriousness in order to protect us. The terrorist's only win if everyday life is disruputed and that has certainly not been the case.

 

[A Challenge]

Bit of a heartless point of view I reckon.

I am not trying to be heartless, just saying that terrorists want publicity and so giving them it won't help - and it isn't the only thing that's happened, even in London!

 

[Busaholic]

I am not trying to be heartless, just saying that terrorists want publicity and so giving them it won't help - and it isn't the only thing that's happened, even in London!

If this was North Korea, China or, increasingly more likely, Russia then it wouldn't have received any publicity, unless someone managed to get something onto the internet before it got taken down. Censorship is as bad as terrorism for a society, indeed I'd argue far worse long-term. There is also the point that if this had only received minimal publicity then the terrorist masterminds, or whatever you wish to call these excuses for people, might say 'ok, what will make them pay attention?' and, next time arrange for a lorry, like in Nice, which is not to say that mightn't come, of course. So, just as with the IRA bombs in London, report away but don't let it stop you going about your lawful business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A traffic accident is exactly that and I certainly don't worry about crossing the road or walking along the pavement. What happened yesterday is the complete opposite in that a terrorist set out to kill as many people as he could and to attack our democracy. The Government has a duty to treat this with the utmost seriousness in order to protect us. The terrorist's only win if everyday life is disruputed and that has certainly not been the case.

No, the terrorists win if people get scared. Yes, the Government has a duty to act and I see no evidence they are not doing. But you should be no more afraid of it than of a road accident; the latter is much more likely to kill you.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I think the complex thing is that we don't really know or understand what the "Islamic"* extremists want or are hoping to achieve. When the IRA bombed London, we knew what they wanted. When independence fighters from Algeria bombed Paris, or from Indonesia attacked trains in Holland, we knew what they wanted.

This is different. There is no manifesto or action they seem to desire. Some say that ISIS want to lure the Western Powers into a final 'end of days' war in the Middle East by riling them up into Total War. Others that they want to scare Western nations into stopping attacks on ISIS, or punish them for their attacks on the "caliphate" in the Levant.



* I hate to call these people Islamic, because they do not represent the real faith worshipped peacefully and respectfully by millions worldwide. They are no more representatives of Islam than the KKK are of Christianity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think an awful lot of them are just nutters acting alone or in small groups just out of hatred for the West. It's certainly not as co-ordinated as Al Qaeda was.

Yes, it would help if the media stopped calling it "Islamic terror". They never called the IRA "Christian terror", after all. "Wahhabist terror" might just about work (there are certainly big issues with that specific branch of Islam in many countries), or just refer to them as Daesh or something.