Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Goldfish62]

This is exactly why the doors should be released & closed manually. Either by a driver OR guard who signs the route.

Why do you say that?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

According to RAIL magazine, all 319's will be off lease by May. Will there be enough 700's available to cover the 319's?

Is this reliable info...? Anything can still happen...

 

[Class377/5]

Is this reliable info...? Anything can still happen...

Can confirm it's not.

 

[jon0844]

Could it mean the leases are over but some will be hired in for a longer period?

 

[Failed Unit]

Could it mean the leases are over but some will be hired in for a longer period?

You mean like the bins? Why would the leasing company? If they haven't got a home take the money.

 

[The Box Photter]

Why do you say that?

So that the maximum use of platform space is made. Also to prevent passengers being delayed by non-opening doors. I was on a northbound class 700 last week that stood for 15 minutes in the platform at St Pancras because the train was having a hissy-fit and refused to release the doors. Eventually we continued north carrying passengers who wanted to alight at St Pancras to West Hampstead, where the doors released and they were left to make their own way back to St Pancras.

Just because you can add technology to a train doesn't make it a benefit to passengers.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A few delay claims after that me thinks

 

[Class377/5]

Could it mean the leases are over but some will be hired in for a longer period?

If trains are off lease then passengers don't travel in them.

So that the maximum use of platform space is made. Also to prevent passengers being delayed by non-opening doors. I was on a northbound class 700 last week that stood for 15 minutes in the platform at St Pancras because the train was having a hissy-fit and refused to release the doors. Eventually we continued north carrying passengers who wanted to alight at St Pancras to West Hampstead, where the doors released and they were left to make their own way back to St Pancras.

Just because you can add technology to a train doesn't make it a benefit to passengers.

Your assuming of course the train was at fault here.

And remember passengers don't see the actual benefits like when a train fails safe, just complain that they aren't allowed to do something.

 

[BelleIsle]

Some drivers are better than others at announcing that not all doors will open.

Such inconsistencies have always been the case. When the Bedpan first went DOO, or OMO as it used to be called, there was a lot of discussion over whether drivers should announce stations as well as operating the doors. There was one individual who used to take notes on such things whilst reavelling to ensure that the company was getting its moneys worth. If he has his way there would would a lot of DOO premiums getting witheld. I believe it was something like £7.60. It is a good thing there was no Twitter or similar in those days.

 

[spark001uk]

Got off 700103 earlier, it had 3 of 5 toilets OOU, not seen that before! All full perhaps?

Add: Just got on 1959 ZFD-BTN, and it's a pair of 377s. I'd have thought with the amount of 700s in service now they would have preferred to complete the day's diagrams with a few 387s? Or have they still not enough stock to do that with just those?

 

[Class377/5]

Got off 700103 earlier, it had 3 of 5 toilets OOU, not seen that before! All full perhaps?

Add: Just got on 1959 ZFD-BTN, and it's a pair of 377s. I'd have thought with the amount of 700s in service now they would have preferred to complete the day's diagrams with a few 387s? Or have they still not enough stock to do that with just those?

The following diagrams still remain on Thameslink at present...

6x 387
18x 377
36x 319

 

[Via Bank]

Such inconsistencies have always been the case. When the Bedpan first went DOO, or OMO as it used to be called, there was a lot of discussion over whether drivers should announce stations as well as operating the doors. There was one individual who used to take notes on such things whilst reavelling to ensure that the company was getting its moneys worth. If he has his way there would would a lot of DOO premiums getting witheld. I believe it was something like £7.60. It is a good thing there was no Twitter or similar in those days.

Good for pay packets, maybe… not so good if you're blind, or it's late at night, or your window has the misfortune to not be in sight of a station name board.

 

[Goldfish62]

So that the maximum use of platform space is made. Also to prevent passengers being delayed by non-opening doors. I was on a northbound class 700 last week that stood for 15 minutes in the platform at St Pancras because the train was having a hissy-fit and refused to release the doors. Eventually we continued north carrying passengers who wanted to alight at St Pancras to West Hampstead, where the doors released and they were left to make their own way back to St Pancras.

Just because you can add technology to a train doesn't make it a benefit to passengers.

I still don't understand your point. There are plenty of examples on SWT where the doors are manually released but those in carriages fully platformed are not released, eg Feltham and Longcross. If you're suggesting that the driver or guard should select the number of carriages to have doors released at each station then I don't agree. That's far too open to human error.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I went on Thameslink again yesterday, from not having used then for ages, it's the 3rd time in as many weeks. This Time just Wimbledon to Tooting, outbound it was an 8 coach old 319, which was ok, at least the loo worked. Coming back it was an 8 coach 700, again with working loos, I also sat in the front first class section which was declassified, all table seats were in use by people with laptops/book etc, I did find the seat in first class just as hard on the backside as I did the other day when doing a longer journey into Bedfordshire on 12 coach 700s.

 

[Deepgreen]

1638 Blackfriars to Three Bridges (a 700/1) delayed after East Croydon yesterday - very slow all the way to Coulsdon South for some unexplained reason. Information display went completely blank around Merstham and stayed blank, and the doors weren't released at Redhill for almost a minute.

 

[The Box Photter]

If trains are off lease then passengers don't travel in them.



Your assuming of course the train was at fault here.

And remember passengers don't see the actual benefits like when a train fails safe, just complain that they aren't allowed to do something.

Well something is at fault, either the train or the driver. Both are the responsibility of GTR. If GTR can't run its services because of rolling stock or personnel deficiencies it should review the problem, devise a solution and implement it.

Don't berate the passengers when GTR isn't up to the job.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I still don't understand your point. There are plenty of examples on SWT where the doors are manually released but those in carriages fully platformed are not released, eg Feltham and Longcross. If you're suggesting that the driver or guard should select the number of carriages to have doors released at each station then I don't agree. That's far too open to human error.

Then what's the point in having SDO? Isn't it the responsibility of the driver to know the route, including where to stop at each station? I agree having door release the responsibility of driver/guard introduces the element of human error. Experience with 700s to date shows that the possibility of human error has been replaced by computer error (albeit in a fail-safe way).

That's of no comfort if you can't get off the train and are carried way beyond your stop because the door you stood at won't open and you've had no warning owing to a failure of the in-carriage PIS.

 

[Deepgreen]

I still don't understand your point. There are plenty of examples on SWT where the doors are manually released but those in carriages fully platformed are not released, eg Feltham and Longcross. If you're suggesting that the driver or guard should select the number of carriages to have doors released at each station then I don't agree. That's far too open to human error.

Do you mean carriages not fully-platformed? Why would fully-platformed carriages not have their doors released?

 

[Class2ldn]

It does happen, harpenden is prime example on the up slow at the moment 8 instead of 12 and we have to override it and open the 12

 

[JaJaWa]

So that the maximum use of platform space is made. Also to prevent passengers being delayed by non-opening doors. I was on a northbound class 700 last week that stood for 15 minutes in the platform at St Pancras because the train was having a hissy-fit and refused to release the doors. Eventually we continued north carrying passengers who wanted to alight at St Pancras to West Hampstead, where the doors released and they were left to make their own way back to St Pancras.

Just because you can add technology to a train doesn't make it a benefit to passengers.

Your assuming of course the train was at fault here.

And remember passengers don't see the actual benefits like when a train fails safe, just complain that they aren't allowed to do something.

What if the train had an emergency situation on board (eg attack, fire)?

 

[Class377/5]

Well something is at fault, either the train or the driver. Both are the responsibility of GTR. If GTR can't run its services because of rolling stock or personnel deficiencies it should review the problem, devise a solution and implement it.

Don't berate the passengers when GTR isn't up to the job

I only berate people moaning about a safety system cutting in that is there to protect them. That's the railways first and most important duty.

You seem to be under the idea that nothing is done. Nothing could be further from the truth but without knowing the facts in the situation you've assumed. Something this forum is good at. Of course explaining thing (and not taking sides) can only been seen on this site as defending the company and attacking the passengers.

 

[Timrud]

I've been on a couple of 700's with doors that would not open.

I just accept it as teething problems

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What if the train had an emergency situation on board (eg attack, fire)?

They'd probably use the emergency egress handle. Hopefully if an emergency situation has occurred, provided the driver isn't dead or unconscious they'd put out an emergency GSM-R call and/or contact the signaller and request all adjacent lines have trains stopped (and in a 3rd rail area the juice switched off).

Would the vigilance device of any unit kick in if the power controller isn't in step 0?

 

[talldave]

On the topic of doors, I think the announcement that says "doors will open automatically at the next station" which plays out as you're rolling into the platform is confusing and should say "doors will open automatically at this station".

 

[D365]

They'd probably use the emergency egress handle. Hopefully if an emergency situation has occurred, provided the driver isn't dead or unconscious they'd put out an emergency GSM-R call and/or contact the signaller and request all adjacent lines have trains stopped (and in a 3rd rail area the juice switched off).

Would the vigilance device of any unit kick in if the power controller isn't in step 0?

Brilliant :roll:

And yes, I'd rather expect that the emergency brakes would apply in such a situation.

 

[telstarbox]

Are there any 700s running on the Catford Loop line yet?

 

[Class377/5]

Are there any 700s running on the Catford Loop line yet?

Has been for a few months now as per diagrams I've been posting.

 

[EAD]

Got a chance to ride a 700 last night for the first time - being in SWT land they see most of my custom, but went to WIM for the 18:28 to get to BFR for a change.

A few impressions/thoughts:

1) Clearly designed as we all know for heavy loading i.e. hauling people in the peaks.
2) Sat in 1st in the leading carriage given it is a Wimbledon Loop train - pleasant enough, but as is the current trend not really much of a 1st class and I would not pay for it other than to escape crowding. I appreciate there is always debate around 1st on busy routes like TL, but some of the runs are quite long.
3) Displays are good, but I noticed they are usually a little too late e.g. when next stop announced or occasionally confused - we had at least one stop not announced at all. I know there has been discussion of the reasons/gremlins and hope this gets bedded down and tweaked suitably with software updates. The one that really was not good was the announcement of which station we were at and calling patterns - this started a fair while after we had been stood meaning it just about got to the destination as the door close was being initiated. Assuming the idea is it is played while at the station to ensure those who board the wrong train realise, it should start as soon as doors have been released.
4) A final thought on displays - they don't seem to cycle that fast. I was looking out for the famed occupation indicator and only saw it a couple of times. How often is it meant to display this and toilets compared to the default calling pattern?

Ride not bad given all the point-work on the route, but of course it is relatively low speed. I presume there was driver training on this turn as there was quite a lively conversation going on in the cab.

 

[Deepgreen]

I only berate people moaning about a safety system cutting in that is there to protect them. That's the railways first and most important duty.

You seem to be under the idea that nothing is done. Nothing could be further from the truth but without knowing the facts in the situation you've assumed. Something this forum is good at. Of course explaining thing (and not taking sides) can only been seen on this site as defending the company and attacking the passengers.

Sadly, this is not the case. You have a strong tendency to berate people (often in a rather garbled manner, too) for a multitude of reasons. It would be good if some members did not become so defensive and curt to other members over so many issues.

 

[spark001uk]

Indeed, it's happening a lot of late. Members all need to keep in mind the below forum rule:

Respectful

• We aim to create a friendly environment for all members, where individuals respect each other. Please ensure your contributions comply with this.

 

[samuelmorris]

Three 700 journeys today, first time using TL for any significant distance for a while. A couple of the units were immaculate, some of them absolutely filthy, very few in between :P

Journey on the way back from Haywards Heath to Farringdon spanned 68 minutes. In that time I didn't encounter any discomfort from the seat padding (or lack thereof), and all three units were heated to a temperature that was pretty much perfect. The quietness of the units makes for a very pleasant journey when you're travelling against the peak passenger flow. The one downside - the PIS is still utterly dreadful. After well over 6 months in service, I'd expect some of the glitches to have been ironed out by now.

The first unit (700101) the PIS displays had all got stuck on the 'no smoking' screen (the audio announcements were fortunately still working, however)_.
The second unit (700107) had a functioning PIS but the screen I was sat beside had a faulty left display - so pale you could barely read it with lots of analogue interference noise all over the image - other screens in the unit were unaffected, but I also noticed the TfL status feed was from three days ago!
The third unit (700108) seemed fully functional until shortly before passing Purley, when the system read out the message about safety notices and gave the entire calling pattern from the beginning, before stating 'the next station is Burgess Hill' - upon reaching East Croydon, it corrected itself, but the sum of the above on three separate units suggests that the system isn't nearly up to the standard it should be. As complex a system as it may be, there is no real excuse for that many different faults to be so prevalent at this stage. A shame, as despite all the errors with the DfT's specification of the units, the fit & finish and ride quality (in my opinion) show that the actual trains themselves are a pretty high quality product. I enjoy travelling on them, as long as I get a non-airline seat