Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[ComUtoR]

So GTR have all these extra 700s available now, with at leat 8 carriages, and yet the first down train to call at Finsbury Park after the midweek football ends, and fans start arriving there, the 22:04 from Kings Cross, is still formed of a 4-car Class 387.
Are GTR not able to realise this is woefully insufficient?

The TOC really isn't responsible for local events etc. They can, and often do, strengthen unit lengths where possible and IF the club or local event pays they will run additional services. We used to run additional services for a local club.

Not forgetting that the extra carriages or services need to come from somewhere and I don't think that football should get any kind of automatic special treatment.

 

[jopsuk]

GTR are generally pretty bad with train lengths on later night services. Common for trains on Friday and Saturday nights to be 4-car with people standing all the way down the aisles leaving Kings's Cross and as far as Royston, with some still in the vestibules at Cambridge.

 

[Wivenswold]

The TOC really isn't responsible for local events etc. They can, and often do, strengthen unit lengths where possible and IF the club or local event pays they will run additional services. We used to run additional services for a local club.

Not forgetting that the extra carriages or services need to come from somewhere and I don't think that football should get any kind of automatic special treatment.

Totally disagree, if the TOC receives extra revenue because more people are using their services to get to an event then it's pretty poor if they don't strengthen the units. GA, and before them NXEA, put on 12 cars units on my line for a small music event I used to run. We recommended to the 5,000 or so attendees that they arrived by train and the TOC were happy to provide extra capacity at no cost.

Operators can't complain that passenger numbers are down while discouraging additional leisure travellers from using their services.

 

[AM9]

Totally disagree, if the TOC receives extra revenue because more people are using their services to get to an event then it's pretty poor if they don't strengthen the units. GA, and before them NXEA, put on 12 cars units on my line for a small music event I used to run. We recommended to the 5,000 or so attendees that they arrived by train and the TOC were happy to provide extra capacity at no cost.

Operators can't complain that passenger numbers are down while discouraging additional leisure travellers from using their services.

An event in a field in a rural area is a very different proposition to a c 50,000 attendee match in an inner-city location. If Arsenal Holdings plc had serious consultations with their local TOC (GTR) something would probably be possible. I don't see why rarely used equipment and resources should be provided at normal passenger's expense or from public funds for the sole benefit of very wealthy football companies that even quibble at the additional policing costs required because of their commercial activities.

 

[Failed Unit]

An event in a field in a rural area is a very different proposition to a c 50,000 attendee match in an inner-city location. If Arsenal Holdings plc had serious consultations with their local TOC (GTR) something would probably be possible. I don't see why rarely used equipment and resources should be provided at normal passenger's expense or from public funds for the sole benefit of very wealthy football companies that even quibble at the additional policing costs required because of their commercial activities.

GTR never strengthens services on great northern. This is going to be the big selling point of the 700s.

Look at the weekend. Every single Saturday and Sunday people are left behind at Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar. Because they only run 4 coach trains.

As these are provided by public funds as you state this is unacceptable. However what is really unacceptable is the government didn’t have a clause in the franchise agreement to fine them.

Saying that the 700s entering service will mean the problem is over.

 

[JonathanH]

Look at the weekend. Every single Saturday and Sunday people are left behind at Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar. Because they only run 4 coach trains.

Isn't that just because the Peterborough and Cambridge slow services have to date interworked and the service has to acknowledge the 4-coach restriction on the 'village' stations on the Cambridge line rather than any particular spite for people at these stations?

 

[Failed Unit]

Isn't that just because the Peterborough and Cambridge slow services have to date interworked and the service has to acknowledge the 4-coach restriction on the 'village' stations on the Cambridge line rather than any particular spite for people at these stations?

That is GTRs excuse. But if they were a decent TOC then could do things about it - like they do in the peak.

 

[AM9]

Isn't that just because the Peterborough and Cambridge slow services have to date interworked and the service has to acknowledge the 4-coach restriction on the 'village' stations on the Cambridge line rather than any particular spite for people at these stations?

Which Failed Unit says above will be rectified when all those services are run using class700s which have full SDO. The 700s also have (and 717s will have) a very large crush-loading capacity so they should be able to clear abnormal crowds safey and quickly as has already been noted on TL routes.

 

[Failed Unit]

Which Failed Unit says above will be rectified when all those services are run using class700s which have full SDO. The 700s also have (and 717s will have) a very large crush-loading capacity so they should be able to clear abnormal crowds safey and quickly as has already been noted on TL routes.

The only thing i wish they did a weekends was focus the introduction on the 4 Car overcrowded services rather than a direct swap with trains already a 8.

Saying that May is close. We have put up with the sardine runs for years. We can survive 3 more months of it.

Be interesting to see if more people use the trains a weekends once word gets out that you can fit on board.

 

[bramling]

The only thing i wish they did a weekends was focus the introduction on the 4 Car overcrowded services rather than a direct swap with trains already a 8.

Saying that May is close. We have put up with the sardine runs for years. We can survive 3 more months of it.

Be interesting to see if more people use the trains a weekends once word gets out that you can fit on board.

Might be able to fit more on board, but not that many more will get seats - which is what should be being aimed for on a weekend.

 

[Failed Unit]

Might be able to fit more on board, but not that many more will get seats - which is what should be being aimed for on a weekend.

To be fair. At least 150 more people will be getting seats over what we have now.

 

[bramling]

An event in a field in a rural area is a very different proposition to a c 50,000 attendee match in an inner-city location. If Arsenal Holdings plc had serious consultations with their local TOC (GTR) something would probably be possible. I don't see why rarely used equipment and resources should be provided at normal passenger's expense or from public funds for the sole benefit of very wealthy football companies that even quibble at the additional policing costs required because of their commercial activities.

It's been an issue with Arsenal for years, especially the evening matches. Extra trains do run, however this doesn't stop people piling into the first service to arrive.

So they all pile in at Finsbury Park, into a service which would be perfectly fine on a normal night, and then whinge about how terrible the whole situation is.

 

[jon0844]

GTR does indeed run extra trains for the football and did so again yesterday. There have been some issues where a normally empty return working is set to be in passenger service for the football, but the signaller has put it as 3xxx and so it doesn't show on the boards.

By the time the mistake is spotted it may have to go, and may actually leave people behind without having time to be filled up.

 

[APUK002]

Still no idea if that is only on Thameslink services. Don’t feel lucky enough to try it on great northern. RPIs could enforce it...

700’s are rear 1st is declassified on both TL&GN

 

[APUK002]

There was track being lifted this morning for the updated sidings next to Cambridge station http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/improvements/cambridge-sidings

Any further information on this?

 

[APUK002]

The livery doesnt make sense. Its still the wrong shade of blue compared to the 365s too. The 387s with green doors annoy me aswell. Some blue vinyl will basically be good enough to solve that issue.

Doors paint under warranty is what I got told.

 

[APUK002]

Thameslink = anything operated by Class 700
Southern, GX, Great Northern = anything not operated by Class 700

Simple enough?

Yup,simple.

 

[Failed Unit]

700’s are rear 1st is declassified on both TL&GN

So it says on Twitter. But I don’t fancy my chances with some of the RPIs. The display has it for a very short period of time so those standing date not risk it. We the guilty until proven innocent culture.

 

[jon0844]

Yup,simple.

Except of course there are many 700s now replacing standard GN services and running to/from King's Cross, despite having Thameslink branding on the outside.

Fortunately someone saw common sense and decided from the outset that the 700s will be declassified at the rear regardless of operator.

 

[D365]

Except of course there are many 700s now replacing standard GN services and running to/from King's Cross, despite having Thameslink branding on the outside.

Those will (eventually) be operating into the core, no?

 

[bramling]

Those will (eventually) be operating into the core, no?

Not everything will do so, there will be some early morning and late evening services from/to King's Cross, which appear to be running under the Thameslink brand. Perhaps they'll provide a slight boost to Thameslink's performance figures?

 

[Failed Unit]

Those will (eventually) be operating into the core, no?

It is possible. But 2 services may never operate through from the consultation.

Cambridge- Maidstone and Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks are push back until at least 2020 and May 2019 respectively.

Cold feet already. They may never actually run through the core if they can’t get the core working.

 

[Verulamius]

Not everything will do so, there will be some early morning and late evening services from/to King's Cross, which appear to be running under the Thameslink brand. Perhaps they'll provide a slight boost to Thameslink's performance figures?

Currently Thameslink has higher performance figures than GN.

 

[387star]

Talking of Finsbury Park why is the station a permanent building site which intrudes into a stairwell ? Can't see work taking place and it's been that way for a long time?

Back to 700s... Can't be far off the last entering service now.

 

[jon0844]

Talking of Finsbury Park why is the station a permanent building site which ontrudes into a stairwell ? Can't see work taking place and it's been that way for a long time?

There's loads of work going on there. Aren't there lifts being installed on all platforms at some point in the future?

 

[Class315]

There's loads of work going on there. Aren't there lifts being installed on all platforms at some point in the future?

Lift shafts have been installed in the spiral staircases which leads to/from the underground to the existing passageway. A newer larger passageway is being built underneath the existing one which leads from the station place entrance to the new development on wells terrace. The stairs that lead to 5/6 will be restored to full use very shortly as will the ones that Lead to/from the entrance.

Lifts will eventually access all platforms, with 7/8 scheduled to receive them last.

 

[adamedwards]

I thought the new passage was actually reopening something disused for many years?

 

[spark001uk]

Are the 1Wxx/2Wxx (well, 1Txx or 2Txx via the Bridge) running via London Bridge on Saturdays yet?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TL
That should answer your question. In short, looks like a no!

 

[spark001uk]

It's the oft-discussed "someone dropping a tennis ball on the roof" sound and AFAIK we have never got to the bottom of it.

You know what I reckon? A fitter is going to see this one day, open the driving car roof panels to investigate, and a tennis ball is going to drop out.

 

[387star]

Out of interest have any table less examples worked on the GN side yet ? I get the impression that side is more likely to see tables though that might be due to the higher numbered units utilised there