Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[AM9]

... If you stand at the North end of the platforms at St Pancras you can see a neutral section sign just inside the Canal tunnels. Obviously the section needs to be broken up somewhere between Finsbury Park and St Pancras but it will be interesting if a 12 car ever has to stop with its back few coaches in the platform there (passcom, egress etc).

The class700s are powered as two separate 4 or 6-car EMUs with arrangements for dual powering of essential support systems. So if you are implying that a train halting over the break between the MML and ECML supply networks with both pantographs up (as is normal) will cause issues, I'm sure that has already been thought of and catered for. There would be no chance of one side connecting to the other. In fact that is more likely to be the saviour of a breakdown on one supply as the feed that was operational would be available for the train to self-recover. The class 700s have more than enough tractive effort to ascend the gradients in the core with half of the traction equipment disabled.

 

[RichardN]

https://twitter.com/SiemensMobility/status/976177952743452676

Surprised nobody has mentioned this. ETCS with ATO has now been used in passenger service. Would be interested to know if it was a one off, or if it is the new normal mode of operation.

 

[Chris125]

More on Railway Gazette

Working with Network Rail and Siemens,commuter operator Govia Thameslink Railway has successfully operated its first passenger-carrying train using ATO over ETCS Level 2.

On March 17 a southbound eight-car Thameslink train to Three Bridges operated automatically through the cross-city core between St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink and London Blackfriars, transitioning into ETCS Level 2 on its approach from Kentish Town and back to conventional signalling between Blackfriars and Elephant & Castle.

 

[Bald Rick]

It also acts to help keep feeder sections separate. The OLE is fed from points 10s of miles apart, and those feeder stations will themselves be coming off different bits of the national grid where the AC waveforms may not be exactly in phase

It’s this reason. The AC supply takes one phase of the Grid’s three phase, however not necessarily the same phase everywhere. The neutral sections keep the seperate phases apart.

The class700s are powered as two separate 4 or 6-car EMUs with arrangements for dual powering of essential support systems. So if you are implying that a train halting over the break between the MML and ECML supply networks with both pantographs up (as is normal) will cause issues, I'm sure that has already been thought of and catered for. There would be no chance of one side connecting to the other. In fact that is more likely to be the saviour of a breakdown on one supply as the feed that was operational would be available for the train to self-recover. The class 700s have more than enough tractive effort to ascend the gradients in the core with half of the traction equipment disabled.

The tw opantographs power the two seperate parts of the unit. If the train comes to a stand across a neutral (very unlikely, as the signals are positioned so this doesn’t happen) the two parts of the unit will be recving power from two seperate Grid supply points. However as the two units aren’t connected for traction power, it doesn’t matter.

 

[Bald Rick]

https://twitter.com/SiemensMobility/status/976177952743452676

Surprised nobody has mentioned this. ETCS with ATO has now been used in passenger service. Would be interested to know if it was a one off, or if it is the new normal mode of operation.

Indeed, a real achievement.

Some trains have been using ETCS in service for a while, but this was the first in ATO. When the industry will see what it does, everyone will want it!

 

[Domh245]

It’s this reason. The AC supply takes one phase of the Grid’s three phase, however not necessarily the same phase everywhere. The neutral sections keep the seperate phases apart.

Primarily, but I am aware of neutral sections that seem to be for isolating purposes only - the 3 neutral sections, each on one side of the triangle, between the Styal Line and Manchester airport won't be doing much for keeping phases separated surely?

 

[Bald Rick]

Primarily, but I am aware of neutral sections that seem to be for isolating purposes only - the 3 neutral sections, each on one side of the triangle, between the Styal Line and Manchester airport won't be doing much for keeping phases separated surely?

They may well be under certain feeding arrangements.

 

[jamieP]

For anyone whos interested 9J57 0946 Peterborough to Horsham on Monday is booked to operate on ATO mode through the core.

 

[RichardN]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X32065/2018/03/23/advanced

Looks like no hitches if it used ATO.

 

[jamieP]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X32065/2018/03/23/advanced

Looks like no hitches if it used ATO.

Sorry meant to say on Monday.

 

[Roast Veg]

Indeed, a real achievement.

Some trains have been using ETCS in service for a while, but this was the first in ATO. When the industry will see what it does, everyone will want it!

Let's hope so! We have crossrail 2 that should adopt full ATO, and ECTS for the GWML and ECML resignalling coming up and Thameslink succeeding will definitely keep the business case alive.

 

[GEcommuter]

I’ve noticed that sometimes what sounds like the train’s fans/ac (?) randomly kick in mid journey and it becomes cooler. This has tended to be when near a station e.g. this morning when approaching Blackfriars. I’m only on the train for about 15mins so I’m not sure if this is repeated elsewhere on the train’s journey. The cooling was very welcome by me!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I rode it this am - a good collection of Industry suits and a very welcome sight of expert journalist Roger Ford. TV crews on board.

Noticeably "solid" performance through the tunnel sections - seemed to glide , but the schedule is pretty leisurely on the approach to the core. Good to have been there -as indeed I was on the last service train from Moorgate TL.

 

[jon0844]

I rode it this am - a good collection of Industry suits and a very welcome sight of expert journalist Roger Ford. TV crews on board.

Noticeably "solid" performance through the tunnel sections - seemed to glide , but the schedule is pretty leisurely on the approach to the core. Good to have been there -as indeed I was on the last service train from Moorgate TL.

There's so much time from Finsbury Park to St Pancras and through the core, that it doesn't seem as if ATO is going to be under much pressure to start with. But get it working first, then seek to tweak those settings as the tph increases.

Better news than the Horsham train last week that got stuck after a pan got mangled!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There's so much time from Finsbury Park to St Pancras and through the core, that it doesn't seem as if ATO is going to be under much pressure to start with. But get it working first, then seek to tweak those settings as the tph increases.

Better news than the Horsham train last week that got stuck after a pan got mangled!

Exactly - and whilst I enjoyed the ride via the new London Bridge , it was a new experience to stop at New Cross and Norwood Junction on a TLK service . Useful cross London connectivity.

 

[jon0844]

Seems that after two OHLE incidents in less than a week, 700s are temporarily banned from using the up fast near Alexandra Palace/Harringay.

Anyone know anything more?

 

[FOH]

Exactly - and whilst I enjoyed the ride via the new London Bridge , it was a new experience to stop at New Cross and Norwood Junction on a TLK service . Useful cross London connectivity.

I think Thameslink has ditched New Cross Gate from the new timetable

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems that after two OHLE incidents in less than a week, 700s are temporarily banned from using the up fast near Alexandra Palace/Harringay.

Anyone know anything more?

You’ve summed it up. Two OLE incidents in the same place, occurring immediately after a 700 passed through. Presumably investigations underway!

 

[physics34]

I think Thameslink has ditched New Cross Gate from the new timetable

yep...

a big shame as NXG to NWD J/east croydon on the fast lines was a well used service

 

[tsr]

yep...

a big shame as NXG to NWD J/east croydon on the fast lines was a well used service

Also a massive hotspot of antisocial behaviour at times, for no specific reason. Found 28 people “not in possession of tickets” once on a single train, and it had that calling pattern. Will be glad to see it go.

 

[jamieP]

You’ve summed it up. Two OLE incidents in the same place, occurring immediately after a 700 passed through. Presumably investigations underway!

Class 800s have also been temporally banned as well. I would assume this would also cover 801s etc.

 

[jon0844]

Not sure if it used the up fast, but they sent an ECS 700 to London this morning. Was sat beside it on 2P21 (also a 700) into London. It enabled me to see what the emergency lighting is like too!

 

[thelem]

Video about this by the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...de-on-the-uk-s-first-automated-mainline-train

 

[387star]

Are any Bedford trains going via London bridge on good Friday or easter Monday ?

 

[samuelmorris]

Looks like they might be:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/03/30/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[mongoose]

You’ve summed it up. Two OLE incidents in the same place, occurring immediately after a 700 passed through. Presumably investigations underway!

OLE damaged again today - https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/979305526336122880 - third time in a week

 

[jon0844]

Not sure what caused today's incident. Can't be fixed until tonight so will be fun for rush hour.

 

[jamieP]

Not sure what caused today's incident. Can't be fixed until tonight so will be fun for rush hour.

Registration arm detach from the contact wire after 1N83 went through. Not 700 related as far as I know.

 

[jon0844]

Registration arm detach from the contact wire after 1N83 went through. Not 700 related as far as I know.

If it's in the same location, could it be linked to recent works and turn out not to be a problem with the 700s? For a while I am sure there was mass panic within GTR, and after today it must have really got bad!

 

[387star]

To answer my own question no through services run via London Bridge on Bank Holidays till May

Realtimetrains is misleading as shows both W and T head codes departing at the same time