the Increasingly Frustrating Thameslink

[The Box Photter]

Yes. You are now at home. #weknowwhereyouare

They can't track me now, I've put my tinfol hat on.

If only the voices would go away....

"... this train is being delayed by congestion caused by earlier delays..."

Nurse, the screens!

 

[plymothian]

The screens are probably saying that too.

 

[hassaanhc]

I noticed the other day that Thameslink have bought back a central page for service alterations not actual Journeycheck branded but looks very similar http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/your-journey/live-running-thameslink/

No service alterations
There are no major service alterations reported. For the current status of all services from your station, please check the live departure/arrival boards.

Additional train information
13:24 Bedford to Brighton due 15:55

Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 12. First class is declassified.

13:37 Sutton Surrey to Luton due 15:29

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

14:08 Brighton to Bedford due 16:35

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. First class is declassified.

14:40 Bedford to Three Bridges due 16:51

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. First class is declassified.

15:08 Sutton Surrey to St Albans City due 16:27

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

15:14 St Albans City to Sutton Surrey due 16:36

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

15:20 West Hampstead Thameslink to Sevenoaks due 16:43

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

Etc etc

 

[87015]

Etc etc

Sort of, its static and doesn't show anything other than one list of short forms (presumably the start of days plan). Still none of the cancellations and other alterations are listed anywhere. Its an improvement, but only from dire to poor really.

 

[mrmatt]

On 6.34 comfy chair special ex Bedford to Beckenham. Just been switched from fast to slow at Harpenden.

I was also on that service and I didn't quite understand why that happened, certainly the drivers excuse approaching St Pancras didn't seem plausible.

 

[43074]

What was the driver's excuse, out of interest?

 

[talltim]

The points were set that way?

 

[Skimble19]

It is either too many announcements, or not enough. Never hear anyone say they're just right...

The only one of our trains that I personally think has the "right" amount of announcements is the 365s... Nice, simple, clear and easy to understand without all the nonsense that goes on on more modern stock..

 

[LBSCR Times]

What was the driver's excuse, out of interest?

Broken down EMT south of Mill Hill Broadway.

 

[asylumxl]

Broken down EMT south of Mill Hill Broadway.

Seems plausible. Perhaps there would have been conflicting movements at Radlett?

 

[Hadders]

The only one of our trains that I personally think has the "right" amount of announcements is the 365s... Nice, simple, clear and easy to understand without all the nonsense that goes on on more modern stock..

Agreed. I've travelled on the 365's for years and in my opinion they are excellent units.

It'll be a shame when they go.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Seems plausible. Perhaps there would have been conflicting movements at Radlett?

Setting back a TL service from Elstree to Radlett on the Up Fast.

 

[mrmatt]

Broken down EMT south of Mill Hill Broadway.

That would make sense but wasn't what the driver said. He said that it was due to following a slow service, which may have been true once we were on the slows but certainly wasn't the cause of us moving off the fasts.

I appreciate drivers don't necessarily have all the information at the time but the announcement wasn't until St Pancras when he would have passed the incident.

I don't have a problem with the announcement, it just struck me as being implausible as a reason to switch to the slow lines.

 

[A-driver]

That would make sense but wasn't what the driver said. He said that it was due to following a slow service, which may have been true once we were on the slows but certainly wasn't the cause of us moving off the fasts.



I appreciate drivers don't necessarily have all the information at the time but the announcement wasn't until St Pancras when he would have passed the incident.



I don't have a problem with the announcement, it just struck me as being implausible as a reason to switch to the slow lines.

Makes no difference if you pass the incident, the driver still won't know what was happening. A stationary train dosnt automatically mean a broken down train. And assuming it was a broken down train and announcing it is discouraged as TOCs and NR are not keen on staff blaming each other unless in full possession of the facts.

All te driver would have known was that they were running on yellows on the slow road.

 

[hounddog]

Same problem on GN with the 313s. And over the years, it was a case of FCC saying they wanted drivers to announce stations, and drivers (at least as mentioned on here) saying it wasn't part of their job and low down on the list of priorities with all the other more important tasks.

313s haven't and presumably never will get displays or auto announcers. Drivers nearly always do the initial safety briefing before departure and announce the approach to Finsbury Park, but otherwise it's rare to hear stations announced manually. When they are, I usually recognise the voices.

It's in the winter that it's worst, as it can be dark and hard to see what station you're at when the train is actually very busy - although it usually only requires asking someone. I've been asked many times, so it's worth keeping track of where you are even if you're on the train until almost the end.

Enfield Gazette last week led with the Govia rep who couldn't see where the train was and nearly missed his stop on the way to a meeting with councillors and passengers.

 

[A-driver]

Enfield Gazette last week led with the Govia rep who couldn't see where the train was and nearly missed his stop on the way to a meeting with councillors and passengers.

That article has been posted in a few of our mess rooms. I can't help thinking it was more of an anecdote to make it seem that Keith jipps was on their side. Once again seemed to be a slightly pointless meeting-he reportedly told people that drivers contracts only specify certain announcements. Thing is that it's not so much to do with our contracts but like I said earlier to do with practicality and safe operation of the train. If they want announcements at every station then the choices are...
On platform announcements
Install auto announcements on the trains
A second member of staff operating the PA on the train.

 

[hounddog]

That article has been posted in a few of our mess rooms. I can't help thinking it was more of an anecdote to make it seem that Keith jipps was on their side. Once again seemed to be a slightly pointless meeting-he reportedly told people that drivers contracts only specify certain announcements. Thing is that it's not so much to do with our contracts but like I said earlier to do with practicality and safe operation of the train. If they want announcements at every station then the choices are...
On platform announcements
Install auto announcements on the trains
A second member of staff operating the PA on the train.

You've stopped the train, opened the doors. What's to stop you then announcing 'this is Enfield Chase'? Announcements while the train is moving is obviously another matter.

 

[jon0844]

Well, before the new Atos system came in, there were announcements on the platform.

Some bright spark at FCC decided to configure the new system so you get an 'on approach' announcement and nothing else. Not even announcements in advance, for the benefit of the partially sighted, unless there's a delay. FCC (and/or Network Rail) also decided that Hatfield should no longer be zoned as it once was, so you can be told to stand clear of platform edges while in the station building.

Before that, when a 313 arrived at New Southgate you'd hear (more so if the doors were opened) 'New Southgate. This is New Southgate. The train ....'

Perhaps GTR could consider reinstating this? Could be a temporary fix until the new rolling stock arrives?

Do GTR have those online forums like FCC did?

 

[A-driver]

You've stopped the train, opened the doors. What's to stop you then announcing 'this is Enfield Chase'? Announcements while the train is moving is obviously another matter.

2 reasons really. One is time-once opened the doors you are then looking out the window/in a mirror or monitor to close the doors up as quickly as possible to keep to time. Making an announcement will certainly add to this time, dispatching requires as much, possibly more, concentration than stopping the train so making a PA whilst doing that is not recommended.

The other reason is as I said previously, we stop at over 120 stations in a day on certain diagrams and expecting the driver to, in addition to the other duties, make 120 PA announcments is unrealistic. It's not a case of laziness before people start but simply not practice when fitted in around everything else we are doing on incredibly intense inner suburban diagrams.

 

[talldave]

The service is pathetic, I could jog faster than the southbound train I'm on is crawling. No apparent delays it's just this scenic tour around se london is ludicrously slow by design.

 

[A-driver]

The service is pathetic, I could jog faster than the southbound train I'm on is crawling. No apparent delays it's just this scenic tour around se london is ludicrously slow by design.

Yea...it's like the Victorians who built the line didn't think ahead to a major remodelling of London bridge and its use as a diversion...

If only everyone who lived round there would allow their houses to be flattened so the crystal palace lines could run in a straight line at a higher speed...

 

[SPADTrap]

'New Southgate. This is New Southgate. The train ....'

Bring back Phil! :P

 

[Aictos]

Bring back Phil! :P

Agreed, the other thing I think is stupid is with services that terminate at stations such as Gordon Hill, Welwyn Garden City, Hertford, Stevenage etc is you get this announcement played "Platform 4 for the 17:00 service from Moorgate, this train terminates here" now if it's the 17:00 but actually arrives at the terminus at 18:03, surely a more accurate announcement should be "Platform 4 for the 18:03 arrival from Moorgate, This train terminates here"?

 

[hounddog]

2 reasons really. One is time-once opened the doors you are then looking out the window/in a mirror or monitor to close the doors up as quickly as possible to keep to time. Making an announcement will certainly add to this time, dispatching requires as much, possibly more, concentration than stopping the train so making a PA whilst doing that is not recommended.

The other reason is as I said previously, we stop at over 120 stations in a day on certain diagrams and expecting the driver to, in addition to the other duties, make 120 PA announcments is unrealistic. It's not a case of laziness before people start but simply not practice when fitted in around everything else we are doing on incredibly intense inner suburban diagrams.

Sorry, that is just nothing but excuses. In the few seconds it takes to make the announcement - I'm not asking for the full stopping pattern, just the current station - there will still be people getting off and on. OK you might lose a few seconds when someone realises it's his stop and someone holds the doors for him but that's about it.

 

[A-driver]

Sorry, that is just nothing but excuses. In the few seconds it takes to make the announcement - I'm not asking for the full stopping pattern, just the current station - there will still be people getting off and on. OK you might lose a few seconds when someone realises it's his stop and someone holds the doors for him but that's about it.

Not excuses at all. I reccomend that you try doing my job for a bit before telling me how I'm best to do it and what can/can't be done.

Quite simply expecting us to announce 100+ stations a day is unrealistic. It's not the drivers job to do so and on intensive metro services we have a lot to do all at once without adding non essentials.

 

[SPADTrap]

Sorry, that is just nothing but excuses. In the few seconds it takes to make the announcement - I'm not asking for the full stopping pattern, just the current station - there will still be people getting off and on. OK you might lose a few seconds when someone realises it's his stop and someone holds the doors for him but that's about it.

No it isn't you just don't understand the job (and why would you), but the reasons put to you are valid.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry, that is just nothing but excuses. In the few seconds it takes to make the announcement - I'm not asking for the full stopping pattern, just the current station - there will still be people getting off and on. OK you might lose a few seconds when someone realises it's his stop and someone holds the doors for him but that's about it.

I'd rather a driver keeps his eye on people entering and exiting the train so doesn't miss any incident like someone falling between the train and platform that happens quite often.

 

[21C101]

Broken down EMT south of Mill Hill Broadway.

That would make sense but wasn't what the driver said. He said that it was due to following a slow service, which may have been true once we were on the slows but certainly wasn't the cause of us moving off the fasts.

I appreciate drivers don't necessarily have all the information at the time but the announcement wasn't until St Pancras when he would have passed the incident.

I don't have a problem with the announcement, it just struck me as being implausible as a reason to switch to the slow lines.

Certainly wasn't that. Having switched from fast to slow at Harpenden, guess what, it went back to the fast at Radlett.

 

[petersi]

The inner suburban trains on great northern have a high station density. Average station distance between stations on the welwyn branch at a guess is under 2 miles so a few seconds here and there add up. And also means a driver has lot to do as is ether dispatching getting ready to stop.
It must be tough line to work

 

[ChiefPlanner]

New 313 replacement stock will sort it , but on dark evenings on a slow train , I have often advised rookie passengers as to where they / we are...