The London Midland Staff Shortage and Cancellation/Bustitution Thread

[williamus]

London Midland are at it again on the Crosscity line today with what appears to be up to a 50% reduction in services this afternoon... at peak time on one of the most intensively operated routes outside London.

"Due to a shortage of train crew, London Midland will be running an amended service today, Friday 21 September. Because of this, a reduced service is currently running between Lichfield Trent Valley and Longbridge / Redditch. Passengers are advised to use the next available service or replacement road transport where provided"

If LM really are paying fines for cancelling trains then this must be costing them dearly. Much more important though, surely, is the impact on the fare-paying commuter.

 

[Rich McLean]

This is taken from a guard who posted on WNXX

There are a band of traincrew who 'Dont do Saturdays' nor do they 'do Sundays' so really dont work weekends. They get away with this by putting in AL for the Saturday and book NA for Sunday or simply go sick on the Saturday. The MFI system is played like a deck of cards by these people and management are powerless to stop them. This not only impacts on the train service, but the other traincrew who have their AL declined or have to cover the vacant jobs. There is only so much the rostered spare traincrew on the Saturday can cover.

Then of course we have the traincrew who 'dont do XXXX job' and as above go sick or AL, leaving other crew to cover etc. It goes on and on.

Things really do need to change.

 

[Donny Dave]

If some staff are calling in sick regulary, how long does this have to happen before managment send them to a doctor to ascertain what is wrong with them?

Basically they are either fit and healthy for work, or they're not. If not, then they would be having more days off than just the Saturday.

 

[Rich McLean]

If some staff are calling in sick regulary, how long does this have to happen before managment send them to a doctor to ascertain what is wrong with them?

Basically they are either fit and healthy for work, or they're not. If not, then they would be having more days off than just the Saturday.

The problem here with the doctors note, is that you have to tell them to get a doctors note before they can return to work. This could mean you are down crew for a number of days before an appointment is booked and can be attended before that member of crew can turn up for work with a doctors note. Imagine service's levels if every sickie got told to do that.

You can't just ask a staff member to get a doctors note, let him/her turn up for work the next day, then bring in the note in the next week or two. Does not work that way I'm afraid.

 

[2Dogbox]

I always thought LM had the same kind of rostering as us local lot on EMT (as we are all ex-central), therefore I thought you could only have so many people around 3-4 off on application leave on each day, depending on depot size. Any more applications for leave would be what is called "in abeyance" and would only be granted if there are people to work rest days to cover.

The Sundays are a problem as it is not part of the working week, but I thought LM now paid time and a half on Sundays? I might be wrong. Saturday's are a part of the working week just like Monday to Friday and there is no choice of saying "I don't like Saturdays so I'm not working"

I think it seems like somewhere the people who deal with HR etc have made some mistakes on recruitment, or there is a chronic problem with sickness and long term sick which is now causing the cancellations. Either way it is not very good.

 

[Rich McLean]

I always thought LM had the same kind of rostering as us local lot on EMT (as we are all ex-central), therefore I thought you could only have so many people around 3-4 off on application leave on each day, depending on depot size. Any more applications for leave would be what is called "in abeyance" and would only be granted if there are people to work rest days to cover.

The Sundays are a problem as it is not part of the working week, but I thought LM now paid time and a half on Sundays? I might be wrong. Saturday's are a part of the working week just like Monday to Friday and there is no choice of saying "I don't like Saturdays so I'm not working"

I think it seems like somewhere the people who deal with HR etc have made some mistakes on recruitment, or there is a chronic problem with sickness and long term sick which is now causing the cancellations. Either way it is not very good.

Normal Flat time. If you are called in to work a rest day during the week, its normal pay, Saturdays, normal time + 1/4 and on Sundays its normal pay + 1/3 for everyone who works it, regardless if you get called in or not.

If you don't put your name down for rest days, and get called anyway, you can end up getting paid 12 hours for 8 hours work. But now recently at some depots, there is an agreement in place that if your name is not down to work a rest day, they they will no longer call you at home.

Plus with the crappy overtime extra's , its not worth the grief to a lot of people working extra days

 

[2Dogbox]

Normal Flat time. If you are called in to work a rest day during the week, its normal pay, Saturdays, normal time + 1/4 and on Sundays its normal pay + 1/3 for everyone who works it, regardless if you get called in or not.

If you don't put your name down for rest days, and get called anyway, you can end up getting paid 12 hours for 8 hours work. But now recently at some depots, there is an agreement in place that if your name is not down to work a rest day, they they will no longer call you at home.

Plus with the crappy overtime extra's , its not worth the grief to a lot of people working extra days

Sounds similar to our place. I worked for LM for a year after my bit of Central Trains became LM so saw a bit of it before I changed companies. From the people I keep in touch with who work for them they seem to think morale as a whole is pretty low at the moment. I know some guards have now started driver training and there are quite a few guards vacancies about leaving a lot of uncovered work.

 

[HH]

Fact is that a lot of Drivers these days are happy with the basic wage. I recall checking out one TOC and 45% of drivers were NEVER working a Rest Day. They don't want to work Sundays (and probably Saturdays) either. It's an issue, and I think TOCs will eventually have to deal with it by making Sundays part of the working week, which has happened in some already.

 

[Rich McLean]

Fact is that a lot of Drivers these days are happy with the basic wage. I recall checking out one TOC and 45% of drivers were NEVER working a Rest Day. They don't want to work Sundays (and probably Saturdays) either. It's an issue, and I think TOCs will eventually have to deal with it by making Sundays part of the working week, which has happened in some already.

If that happened at LM, I can put money on it that ASELF and RMT would have a field day, and there would be ballots for strike's.

But I agree that Sundays should be part of the working week from a passenger perspective, but for that to happen, things would get a whole lot worse before they got better

 

[Trog]

Poor service from LM on the south end of the WCML today as well.

The 17:41 off Milton Keynes failed to stop at Leighton Buzzard or at least in the platforms, so we were all dumped off at Cheddington instead.

The guard on the 17:41 who was helpful and doing her best to put things right, rang LM control to ask that the 18:10 off Cheddington stop additionally at Leighton Buzzard so we could all get home with as little delay as possible. Full marks to her for trying to make the best of a bad situation, and could she please give herself a pat on the back as I suspect that is the only thanks she is likely to get from LM for her efforts.

Needless to say when the 18:10 arrived at Cheddington the crew knew nothing of any stop order, and the guards attitude was Bletchley or lump it. Presumably control had decided that an extra stop for the 18:10 at Leighton would have cost LM money, and perish the thought that the convienience of mere passengers should be put before LM's profit margin.

 

[HH]

If that happened at LM, I can put money on it that ASELF and RMT would have a field day, and there would be ballots for strike's.

But I agree that Sundays should be part of the working week from a passenger perspective, but for that to happen, things would get a whole lot worse before they got better

ASLEF generally support it - it means more drivers. Local reps tend to take a different view... RMT means Wor Bob, and any excuse for a strike will do.

Yes, it's not easy, but "do nothing" won't be easy either...

 

[GadgetMan]

If some staff are calling in sick regulary, how long does this have to happen before managment send them to a doctor to ascertain what is wrong with them?

Basically they are either fit and healthy for work, or they're not. If not, then they would be having more days off than just the Saturday.

The abuse of the sickness system is a problem throughout the railway. Every depot has at least a couple of staff who average about 6 months on the sick every year. You can't take annual leave whilst sick so when they finally return to work just before their 6 months is up and pay is halved, they are then rewarded with availability of their full Annual leave entitlement and off roster days to route refresh, catch up with safety briefs etc while the rest of us cover their shifts off spare and have our App days declined due to staff shortages. Been on the railway 10 years and have been watching some staff playing the system without any sort of penalty.

You'll even hear them openly admitting they are going abroad and won't be back til a day after they are due to return to work so will call in sick from abroad.

Or couldn't get a Saturday off so have a convenient near miss on the Friday.

The list of scams goes on and on.......

 

[BestWestern]

The abuse of the sickness system is a problem throughout the railway. Every depot has at least a couple of staff who average about 6 months on the sick every year. You can't take annual leave whilst sick so when they finally return to work just before their 6 months is up and pay is halved, they are then rewarded with availability of their full Annual leave entitlement and off roster days to route refresh, catch up with safety briefs etc while the rest of us cover their shifts off spare and have our App days declined due to staff shortages. Been on the railway 10 years and have been watching some staff playing the system without any sort of penalty.

You'll even hear them openly admitting they are going abroad and won't be back til a day after they are due to return to work so will call in sick from abroad.

Or couldn't get a Saturday off so have a convenient near miss on the Friday.

The list of scams goes on and on.......

Regrettably very true. These people do none of us any favours at all, and will stop only when they are finally out of a job. Sadly, that might only be when we're all out of a job, the argument to cut staff to the bone having been bolstered by these idiots. It is utterly shocking how companies appear to have absolutely no grip on the very worst p*ss takers.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Or couldn't get a Saturday off so have a convenient near miss on the Friday.

No doubt it goes but this is a little bit disrespectful for any train crew who have been involved in near misses and PHBTs imo

 

[BestWestern]

No doubt it goes but this is a little bit disrespectful for any train crew who have been involved in near misses and PHBTs imo

It is, but sadly it's also true.

 

[GB]

The abuse of the sickness system is a problem throughout the railway. Every depot has at least a couple of staff who average about 6 months on the sick every year.

While I agree there are some that abuse the system, to claim every depot has a couple of staff who abuse it to the extent of being off sick for on average 6 months is a bit of a stretch.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

While I agree there are some that abuse the system, to claim every depot has a couple of staff who abuse it to the extent of being off sick for on average 6 months is a bit of a stretch.

I dunno GB my depot has a few who do it and I know a few depots who have the same problem with a couple of staff

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps I'm just naive but this sums up my feelings on what I've read above:

hock:

How on earth can people be allowed to get away with behaving in that manner?

 

[BestWestern]

Perhaps I'm just naive but this sums up my feelings on what I've read above:

hock:

How on earth can people be allowed to get away with behaving in that manner?

To be honest it's a mystery. There are systems in place designed to 'manage' attendance, but for whatever reason they just don't seem to touch the very people they are aimed at. As somebody who doesn't do it I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that there are scams such as going off with the same 'condition' on different occasions which means that you don't get caught, and suchlike.

It really is shameful

What makes things worse in many cases is the safety critical nature of the job and the use of outside firms - i.e. BUPA - to assess staff and their suitability to return to front line duties. There is an obvious need to be cautious before passing somebody as fit to return to work, for reasons of both safety and liability, which some individuals will happily exploit for as long as possible.

 

[172212]

As long as my Snow Hill Lines aren't heavily affected, I should be ok, because I have to use that line everyday - work/uni. They say they are recruiting staff, but training can take months and even years, I can't lie, I worry.

 

[GB]

The whole MFA thing is ridiculous and is partly to blame. It is based on the number of different absences rather than the length of those absences.

For example you can have 1 employee who has had 3 separate absences throughout the year totaling 6 months off (for example) and you can have another employee with 4 separate absences in a year totaling 4 days off. Its the latter that will get put on MFA stage 1.

 

[transmanche]

The whole MFA thing is ridiculous and is partly to blame. It is based on the number of different absences rather than the length of those absences.

For example you can have 1 employee who has had 3 separate absences throughout the year totaling 6 months off (for example) and you can have another employee with 4 separate absences in a year totaling 4 days off. Its the latter that will get put on MFA stage 1.

It's common in a lot of industries nowadays.

I had a colleague who had literally not had a sick day in over 19 years. Then he had two short absences in a year (3 days in total) and was put into the whole 'absence management' machine...

 

[12CSVT]

But now recently at some depots, there is an agreement in place that if your name is not down to work a rest day, they they will no longer call you at home.

And that's how it should be. Ever since British Rail days it's a fact that in many places traincrews have been constantly bullied into working overtime and rest days against their wishes.

 

[Rich McLean]

List of all Cancelled LM Services today.

http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/live-info/

Oh dear. For those looking to travel this afternoon/evening to shacks to Shrewsbury from Wolves, good luck.

Is that 50% of LM's West Midlands Network out the window?

 

[Greenback]

MFA procedures in many places are pretty similar in my experience. But they all take into account that there may be a chronic, progressive condition involved which will cause absence rates to be higher than normal for certain individuals.

Anyone who merely goes sick with the same condition over and over again is not normally exempt from the provisions of an MFA scheme until they have been diagnosed with a particular condition and been seen by the Occupational Health provider.

Even then the individual may be recommended for ill health retirement on the grounds of irregular attendance, or if their condition becomes such that they will be unable to 'render effective and regular service (or some such similar phrase).

What, I think may be seen as the biggest problem is people who take sick leave up until the point where their sick pay will be reduced or withdrawn, return just long enough to build up their entitlement again, and then disappear for another long period of sick pay.

This is a cynical playing of the system, which should be investigated, but if the person is adjudged by a medical professional as being too ill to work, there isnt much that can be done realistically.

 

[island]

Perhaps I'm just naive but this sums up my feelings on what I've read above:

hock:

How on earth can people be allowed to get away with behaving in that manner?

It's very hard to dismiss people these days.

 

[A-driver]

It's very hard to dismiss people these days.

Think it's important to state before the staff bashing begins that this problem of staff going sick is not at all limited to train drivers or the railway industry.

Considering that many people in other jobs get paid even if they go sick by self certifying (many of my mates outside the railway do) and that train drivers don't get paid unless they supply a doctors note I would imagine its more of an issue in other industries.

 

[Ferret]

I wonder if LM have got sufficient staff in this Sunday to get me home later!

 

[Rich McLean]

Sundays are often ok, as they get paid Time + 1/3, so in most cases, enough staff put their name down to cover. Also there is a reduced service in the West Midlands on a Sunday.

 

[Skimble19]

So, is it the drivers or the guards causing these cancellations? Or a combination of both?