The New 16-17 Saver

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by daniel1234321, 22 Feb 2019.

  1. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Scotrail (and Cal Sleeper?) come under the devolved government of Scotland and they already have the Young Scot railcard.
     
  2. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    And in Wales the child fare is moving to under 18
     
  3. Peter0124

    Peter0124 Member

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    Young scot is only 33% off compared to the 50% from this card
     
  4. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    However, it does give 50% off season tickets (weekly and monthly) which is also one of the major attractions of the 16-17 railcard.

    If you are unhappy that the Scottish government think that the Young Scot card is sufficient for Scotland, I suggest that you take it up with them.
     
  5. Peter0124

    Peter0124 Member

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    Not saying I'm unhappy I just want this new railcard to be accepted by scotrail
     
  6. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    And that decision will be made by the franchise issuing body for Scotland, so tell them!
     
  7. whhistle

    whhistle On Moderation

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    A 16-17 Saver entitles the holder to 50% discount on Adult rail fares throughout England and Wales, and selected stations in Scotland served by Virgin Trains, LNER, CrossCountry and TransPennine Express.

    The 16-17 Saver will be announced on 14 August and can be purchased from 20 August. Discounted tickets can be purchased from Monday 02 September 2019. Normal issuing advance ticket rules will be in place.

    Yet another discount option to an already over complicated system...

    Great for saving, not great for simplicity.
     
  8. centraltrains

    centraltrains Member

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    I don't get why it isn't just marketed as a "Railcard", Kinda annoyed I miss out by just a few years being 19. Will be very good for people! Think people would just prefer if the boundary of adult/child was moved to under 18s though! Not sure how many 16/17 year olds could afford £30...
     
  9. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    It's a step in the right direction but I agree with @centraltrains that just moving the child boundary to 18 would make more sense. Alas the time it's being introduced is rather annoying for me as I'd only get about 4 months use from it so it probably isn't worth the money.
     
  10. Adsy125

    Adsy125 Member

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    Given that part of the point of this is to enable Sixth Form and College students to commute by rail for a much lower price it seems strange that it is only valid until your 18th Birthday, not until the end of the academic year.
     
  11. Denyboy

    Denyboy Member

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    I agree, they should make child tickets include 16 & 17 year olds. I could afford the railcard but, turning 18 in 6 months would be a waste of money. They could also have a student railcard where you get 50% adult fares, but have to show a student card as proof.
    I've got a mate that is young looking, he thought that child tickets were up to 17 (seeing as you turn into an adult when your 18). You cant actually prove someone is older than they are though!
     
  12. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    Transpennine Express do that already for Advance fares. If you have a 16-25 Railcard and an NUS card, the discount is increased from 34% to 50%. CrossCountry do something similar too.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  13. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

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    You dont need an NUS card for TPE, you just need the code TPESTUDENT.
     
  14. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    This would be somewhat convenient for myself, considering I turn 16 in just over a year, but as said above, putting child fares up to 18 would be a far better idea. But, it's a good idea, so it won't happen.

    Would you be able to pair the discount of this with a 16-25 Railcard?
     
  15. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    It's also not as useful in London where the 16-18 zip card also offers half price fares and travelcards, is valid for two years ending in September after the 18th birthday.
     
  16. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    I don't think you get a choice about turning 18! But seriously, if you are spending less than £60 in 6 months on train fares this product really isn't aimed at you.
    You can hold both but you'll only get one lot of discount.
     
  17. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    In England there are legal restrictions on what 16 and 17 year olds can do with their time so it isn't fair to require them to pay the full adult fare. This is why there are several concessionary schemes in operation around the country, run by local authorities or the TOCs themselves, but it's a bit of a lottery. I believe this scheme helps to level things out a bit for those who aren't eligible for any of those schemes.

    I agree it would be useful for the discount to be available until the September after the 18th birthday, but how do you fairly price a railcard with a fixed expiry date regardless of start date?
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  18. daniel1234321

    daniel1234321 Member

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    Well the card was announced today. Available on the 20th for use from the 2nd September. Not valid on ScotRail or Caledonian Sleeper, and called a Saver as apposed to a railcard (presumably to prevent confusion with the 16-25 railcard). Unlike the 26-30 Railcard it is available as both a plastic card and a digital card on the railcard app.
     
  19. Peter0124

    Peter0124 Member

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    Shame I cant even use it in my home city! Why scotrail
     
  20. northken

    northken Member

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    Sorry if I'm being as stupid as possible here, but how does it work if you buy a ticket from, say, Glasgow to Edinburgh with it? Are you only permitted to use English TOCs?

    Further, are holders of this railcard banned from accessing a load of &Connections tickets to Scotland from England/Wales?
     
  21. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    The BBC news website claims it's only valid on services starting in England and Wales, but according to https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/where-can-i-use-it/ it's only not valid on Scotrail, Caledonian Sleeper and there are no discounts on Oyster or London Travelcard fares within Zones 1-9.

    Notably, it's also not valid for First Class fares, but is valid for seasons. Seasons can be used for up to 4 months after the card expires.
     
  22. pdq

    pdq Member

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    It seems unfair to me to withdraw availability at 18th birthday, especially for 6th form students who commute by train. My son was born in early September, so would be unable to use this card for all but one week of his year 13 (upper 6th). If he had been born a week earlier, validity would see him through all his school days. Seeing it through to age 19 would cover this, or linking the card to the academic year rather than birthday.
     
  23. daniel1234321

    daniel1234321 Member

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    It's the same with child fares to 16 though, if you used trains to get to secondary school and were born in September you would have to pay adult fares for most of yr11. I'm not justifying this, but they would need to change it so you got child fares until end of yr11 and then 16-17 saver fares to end of yr13. Like what tfl do in london, 11-15 oyster is valid until the 30th september when you're in year 12, regardless of your birthday.
     
  24. whhistle

    whhistle On Moderation

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    Why not?
    They still take the same journey and use a seat?

    Alton Towers' adult age is just 12.
    Sounds stupid right?
    But at 12 years old, the average person is 1.4m high. That is the restriction on the biggest rides, so means 12/13/14/15 year olds can access the same amount of attractions as someone in their 30s or 40s
    Doesn't sound so stupid any more.

    Same method of thinking should apply with this railcard too.
     
  25. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    No-one forces people to go to Alton Towers.
    People are required to remain in education.
     
  26. whhistle

    whhistle On Moderation

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    And nobody forces someone to use the train :p
     
  27. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    I've no problem with 16 and 17 year olds getting a 50% discount. We do need to remember that this age group has nowhere near the earning power of adults in general so to expect them to pay full price isn't really right.

    I've also read that that discount applies to season tickets as well and that the discount on season tickets applies up 4 months after the railcard expires. I assume this is on season tickets already purchased, i.e if the railcard expires on 31 March you can purchase a season ticket that expires on later than 31 July.
     
  28. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    They have to travel somehow. Persuading them to use public transport seems to be a good plan.

    Where I am they can use buses and trains for half fare until the September after their 18th birthday for minimal outlay.
     
  29. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    This will lead to new split ticketing opportunities when travel between England or Wales and Scotland.

    Should they only allow this card to be used by people not living in Scotland, given the Young Scot is not available in England and Wales and Scotrail are not participating in this railcard?
     
  30. Voyager lad

    Voyager lad Member

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    I’m someone who lives in Scotland who will benefit from the new card. But I think it would be unfair to say Scottish people can’t have it. In many cities across the U.K. people are already deprived of not benefiting from discounted travel if they do not live in that city or surrounding area. For example, as I don’t live in the relevant area I cannot get discounted fares that are available with TfGM on Buses etc since I don’t have an Igo Card, as simply I’m not allowed one!!
     

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