things the rail industry do to intentionally set passengers up for buying a new ticke

[ainsworth74]

According to NR Cof C, cycle restrictions are just:

"Subject to individual Train Company charges and restrictions."

So I reckon they are not actually specified, so you cannot claim any generic rights to take a bike?

Where are you getting that from? I'm reading this:

Except for a few routes, the Train Companies allow cycles to be conveyed by train. However, restrictions may apply at particular times of day and/or days of the week. Any restrictions will be set out in the notices and publications of each Train Company. A charge may be made for conveying a cycle and a reservation may be required.

Which to me suggests that they can restrict the carriage of cycles by time/day/route but not by ticket type.

In any case, is that actually any requirement for a TOC to always issue tickets that are subject to the NRCoC? Could a TOC not create their own Conditions of Carriage if they so wished?

No as they would be in violation of the terms of their Passenger Licence as granted by the ORR. Such a violation I would imagine would lead to a fine at the very least and continued violation could well lead to them losing their Licence and therefore the franchise.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are you getting that from? I'm reading this:

Annex B to the CofC, which lists all the possible luggage and other restrictions.

 

[ainsworth74]

Annex B to the CofC, which lists all the possible luggage and other restrictions.

Hmm interesting, that's a bit different to what said in condition 48.

 

[IanXC]

At the risk of going OT, the clue is in the name; CNP transactions are for when the cardholder isn't present, not the card. It's a gross violation of a merchant agreement to process a transaction as CNP when the cardholder's there. Not least because that could be anybody's number they're reciting.

Absolutely. I think if Tesco are doing this then they must prefer to take a payment at high risk of chargeback than not take a payment\turn the customer away. Although they'll presumably have CCTV too many of those and their acquiring costs will soar.

 

[Bellwater]

Just had a young chap claim 'there was nobody there' when I refused to give him a railcard discount out of Man Picc.

Man Picc? Nobody there? Worst excuse I've heard in ages.

 

[Yew]

People do forget! If I go to Tesco, get to till and say "sorry I forgot my wallet but here is my credit card number(but I forgot to bring it,)" Tesco will say " leave the goods here and close the door behind you". If I forget my Senior Bus Pass do I get to ride for free? No.

If you forget your clubcard however, you can bring your reveipt to customer services to get the points applied later. A clubcard is more analogous to a railcard than a credit card

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . Could a TOC not create their own Conditions of Carriage if they so wished?

I'm pursuing one incident at present which, on the surface, appears to be an example of a TOC's staff making up their own Conditions (I shall not go into detail at present).
The TOC's staff (5 of them!) have declared that a passenger's ticket is not valid for travel as booked, and one of the over-ruling reasons given was that the Contract was formed with the TOC which was the retailler and therefore, does not bind the other TOC to convey the passenger.

I don't think there are many people on here who know where the inter-company obligations can be found! The Ticketing & Settlement Agreement, the Franchise Agreements and the NR CoC are a good start.

Its my hunch that the first of the conveying TOC's staff simply didn't really know WHY the ticket should be invalid (but felt that it should be) and so jumped on the first possibility that occurred to them and the others just followed in support. They were still wrong, though.

 

[yorkie]

Could a TOC not create their own Conditions of Carriage if they so wished?

Yep, Railtour operators will have their own Conditions. Of course, they are not be entitled to any ORCATS money and have no franchise commitments to meet

I suppose the likes of GC and HT, who have no franchise commitments could do the same, however with no ORCATS revenue they would be totally unviable.

As for franchised TOCs, the NRCoC are a schedule to the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA), compliance with which is mandatory (although some staff believe otherwise; they're wrong!).

 

[Flamingo]

Yep, Railtour operators will have their own Conditions. Of course, they are not be entitled to any ORCATS money and have no franchise commitments to meet

I suppose the likes of GC and HT, who have no franchise commitments could do the same, however with no ORCATS revenue they would be totally unviable.

As for franchised TOCs, the NRCoC are a schedule to the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA), compliance with which is mandatory (although some staff believe otherwise; they're wrong!).

Careful where you say that, the NRCoC are much more stringent than they are applied in practice (in most cases).

 

[yorkie]

Careful where you say that, the NRCoC are much more stringent than they are applied in practice (in most cases).

Well, it is certainly true that the NRCoC does allow more rights to be given to a passenger than the bare minimum; that's still compliant!

 

[Flamingo]

They also say most passengers should be charged a hell of a lot more than they usually are if found without a valid ticket...