ticket inspector swarm

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elementalpat

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On my usual Southern train to work this morning, I encountered, not 1, not 2, but 3 inspectors going through the train!

Surely this is overkill cos I have never seen this happen before!!
 
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tsr

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Ticket inspectors are often seen in groups of up to 6 or so, and they are sometimes accompanied by RPOs and BTP officers. RPIs generally don't board a train on their own (i.e. without other RPIs, RPOs or BTPOs), for some reason, as far as I can see. Safety, perhaps?

It can be fun when they are all in plain clothes and get their IDs checked numerous times. Under Section 5 of the Penalty Fares Regulations (or whatever they're called now), there is technically no reason why not.
 

michael769

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Ticket inspectors are often seen in groups of up to 6 or so, and they are sometimes accompanied by RPOs and BTP officers. RPIs generally don't board a train on their own (i.e. without other RPIs, RPOs or BTPOs), for some reason, as far as I can see. Safety, perhaps?

Another reason is corroboration - the word of two inspectors bears a lot more weight in court than one.
 

185

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I often go round in a pack of 22 on a revenue operation. On one occasion during footie, 48 staff got off outside the depot.
 

Clip

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It may seem like overkill but its bloody effective.

I even join my team of RPIs at times when we do a station blockade 10+ rpis and some BTP is like poetry in motion.

But the best thing about doing this is that it shows those who have a ticket that we take fare evasion seriously.


 

trentside

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Working in a team also means that if one RPI has to stop to deal with a fare evader, issue a PF etc. then the rest of the team can continue checking tickets in the rest of the train. I've seen this happen on EMT and FCC services, and it seems to allow them to work more effectively than a lone RPI could.
 

Pugwash

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Funnily enough they never seem to pick the days when there are delays.

Oh and the BTP being present is overkill and should be paid for overtime by the TOC's the BTP are not beholden to the TOC's.
 

Clip

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Funnily enough they never seem to pick the days when there are delays.

Oh and the BTP being present is overkill and should be paid for overtime by the TOC's the BTP are not beholden to the TOC's.

You're right they are not. But it is worth pointing out that enforcing by laws is part of their job.

As is ensuring that those who evade paying their fare are dealt with correctly.

And those little runts who decide that my staff are punching bags get arrested to.

Do you have a problem with the BTP supporting rail staff in carrying out their day to day duties?

Shameful

 

wintonian

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You're right they are not. But it is worth pointing out that enforcing by laws is part of their job.

As is ensuring that those who evade paying their fare are dealt with correctly.

And those little runts who decide that my staff are punching bags get arrested to.

Do you have a problem with the BTP supporting rail staff in carrying out their day to day duties?

Shameful


The BTP are only able to enforce criminal law, and they are not their to ensure that fare evaders are dealt with correctly but to ensure that neither side is in breach of criminal law.

I'm unsure as to where the assertion that the police are responsible for upholding civil law comes from?
 

IanXC

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Funnily enough they never seem to pick the days when there are delays.

Oh and the BTP being present is overkill and should be paid for overtime by the TOC's the BTP are not beholden to the TOC's.

Its also worth remembering who pays for the BTP...

 

D6975

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Blitzing a train - particularly a service that has lots of regular stops, is the only effective way to do it surely. Otherwise dodgers would just get off at the next stop when they saw the inspector coming. My experience has been that on busy services, an inspector always finds someone without a ticket between me spotting them and them getting to me.
 

Pugwash

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You're right they are not. But it is worth pointing out that enforcing by laws is part of their job.

As is ensuring that those who evade paying their fare are dealt with correctly.

And those little runts who decide that my staff are punching bags get arrested to.

Do you have a problem with the BTP supporting rail staff in carrying out their day to day duties?

Shameful


Quite right I do, why does anyone who works for the railways deserve a member of the BTP to be present when they carry out their job when so many stations are left deserted for passengers to basically fend for themselves in the late evenings.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Its also worth remembering who pays for the BTP...


Ultimately passengers or from general taxation, the rest as per our current situation is just a money making machine for private enterprise.
 

bb21

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Quite right I do, why does anyone who works for the railways deserve a member of the BTP to be present when they carry out their job when so many stations are left deserted for passengers to basically fend for themselves in the late evenings.

Why should staff not be protected when there is a high risk of assult and abuse?
 

455driver

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Oh and the BTP being present is overkill and should be paid for overtime by the TOC's the BTP are not beholden to the TOC's.

Why?

Who do you think pays for the BTP?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ultimately passengers or from general taxation, the rest as per our current situation is just a money making machine for private enterprise.

Actually the BTP are paid for by the TOCs, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good moan! :roll:

Of course if you want to take it to a completely illogical conclusion, I do because I pay tax!
 

221129

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If you think that 3 was bad then you would have hated Dawlish this afternoon 8-10 RPOs 4 BTP Officers and a load of other staff oh and one of the managers for revenue protection!
 

wintonian

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From a BTP Special Constable job description:

Oh so we do live in a police state, at least as far as the railways are concerned it seems.

Next time I'm in Tesco and the price on the packet is different to what the til comes up with I'll just dial 999 and ask for the considered legal opinion of the local pold then. <(
 

455driver

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Oh so we do live in a police state, at least as far as the railways are concerned it seems.

Next time I'm in Tesco and the price on the packet is different to what the til comes up with I'll just dial 999 and ask for the considered legal opinion of the local pold then. <(

I was going to post a reply to this but I have got enough points this week already! :roll:
 

the sniper

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The BTP are only able to enforce criminal law, and they are not their to ensure that fare evaders are dealt with correctly but to ensure that neither side is in breach of criminal law.

I'm unsure as to where the assertion that the police are responsible for upholding civil law comes from?

Erm, the law is the law. The various forms of fare evasion are normally breaches of criminal law, so of course it's the Police's business.

Whether there are more important matters/crimes to resource over dealing with fare evasion is another matter. Personally I believe that fare evasion should be dealt with by the railway companies where possible, as is currently the case on the whole, with BTP becoming involved where threats and violence are used.

Does it hurt to have the NPT or Safer Travel Teams go out with RPIs though? Absolutely not IMO. RPIs come up against a lot of grief, having BTP there only prevents such unpleasantness.

Quite right I do, why does anyone who works for the railways deserve a member of the BTP to be present when they carry out their job when so many stations are left deserted for passengers to basically fend for themselves in the late evenings.

You're joking, right? You can't see the difference between what a passenger encounters (which is normally nothing) and what an RPI encounters, where they have to upset all sorts of characters?

Ultimately passengers or from general taxation, the rest as per our current situation is just a money making machine for private enterprise.

Only a small percentage of the BTP's funding comes from general taxation, and this is usually for specific projects.

Oh so we do live in a police state, at least as far as the railways are concerned it seems.

Railway's have had byelaws formed under Acts of Parliament for 170 years. These have been enforced by railway men and Police Officers for 170 years. If the existence of enforceable byelaws are how you define a 'Police State', then I guess we live in one and have done for 170+ years.
 
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johnnychips

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Try Barcelona where their equivalent of tram RPIs go round in pairs accompanied by a security guard with a large, but muzzled, rottweiler. I nearly sh*t myself and I had a ticket!
 

ralphchadkirk

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The BTP are only able to enforce criminal law, and they are not their to ensure that fare evaders are dealt with correctly but to ensure that neither side is in breach of criminal law.

I'm unsure as to where the assertion that the police are responsible for upholding civil law comes from?

Funnily enough fare evasion is criminal law, and if the BTP officer so wished he or she could arrest the fare evader. However, they would prefer to leave it in the care of the Revenue Protection team simply because they are not experienced in the nuances of ticketing regulations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh so we do live in a police state, at least as far as the railways are concerned it seems.

Next time I'm in Tesco and the price on the packet is different to what the til comes up with I'll just dial 999 and ask for the considered legal opinion of the local pold then. <(

Rubbish. That *is* civil law. Fare evasion is a criminal matter.
 

CC 72100

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If you think that 3 was bad then you would have hated Dawlish this afternoon 8-10 RPOs 4 BTP Officers and a load of other staff oh and one of the managers for revenue protection!

Being there myself, that was more down to crowd management, particularly at the end of the air show at around 16:30 due to the volume of people and the organisation involved. Also worth remembering that the high amount of people on the trains using Dawlish today rendered on-board ticket checks impossible to do, so doing it at Dawlish was obviously seen as the best way to carry out revenue protection duties.

To summarise: More to do with high volume of people and lack of on train checks than a 'Let's bust Dawlish when loads of young families travelling because its clearly such a bad spot for fare evasion'.

For the record, I thought that FGW organised Dawlish station and the additional services very well, the human annoncements very useful too. Was rather amusing seeing everyones reaction the the announcement of the 16:38to Plymouth being a 153 mind! (I already thought it would be, as the 16:05 EXD - PLY is normally!)
 

221129

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Being there myself, that was more down to crowd management, particularly at the end of the air show at around 16:30 due to the volume of people and the organisation involved. Also worth remembering that the high amount of people on the trains using Dawlish today rendered on-board ticket checks impossible to do, so doing it at Dawlish was obviously seen as the best way to carry out revenue protection duties.

To summarise: More to do with high volume of people and lack of on train checks than a 'Let's bust Dawlish when loads of young families travelling because its clearly such a bad spot for fare evasion'.

For the record, I thought that FGW organised Dawlish station and the additional services very well, the human annoncements very useful too. Was rather amusing seeing everyones reaction the the announcement of the 16:38to Plymouth being a 153 mind! (I already thought it would be, as the 16:05 EXD - PLY is normally!)

I totally agree i was just saying that there were many staff there.
 
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