TOC privilege card..

[Sammy h]

Not sure if this is in the correct sub forum so admin please move it if necessary.

I work for Virgin and have just received my TOC priv card which was attached to the bottom of a letter, it is only valid until 30th June, is this correct? I am on a temp contract until December (fingers crossed it will be perm) - I was just wondering.

Also regarding Virgin travel, do I get a separate card for that? I know I don't qualify for tribe, but I was wondering if there was a pass? I have jumped on a couple since I started the job and I just showed the TM my ID pass before I boarded.

Hoping someone can help, thanks.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yep, all Privs are done on a July-June basis. VT staff get Tribe cards, but I'm not sure what happens if you are only part-time / agency etc.

 

[wibble]

I work for Virgin and have just received my TOC priv card which was attached to the bottom of a letter, it is only valid until 30th June, is this correct? I am on a temp contract until December (fingers crossed it will be perm) - I was just wondering.

Yes, it's correct. The card is issued annually expiring on 30th June. You should recieve a new one in June which is valid to 30 June 2013.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Yep every rail employees TOC card expires end of June, a new one will come through the post before it expires which will be valid til the following June (2013). I can only speak for EC but yes you should get another travel card from virgin for your free lesuire travel with them.

 

[yorkie]

This question recently cropped up:

...it appears that temporary staff do not get free travel! :neutral:

They don't, I'm afraid. They do in many cases get Residential Duty Passes for Virgin Trains, but no Tribe Card (which incidentally, is now defunct as of 31/10 - they have all expired and are being slowly replaced with a new ID card).

 

[RJ]

Fixed term staff over 15hr p/w get a Priv, but no Tribe. Only permanent staff over 15hr p/w get the Priv and Tribe Card.

Part time and fixed term aren't the same thing.

 

[Sammy h]

Thanks for all your help guys.

Just to clarify I am full time, but fixed term until the end of December

Strange I don't get Virgin travel... Oh well.

 

[All Line Rover]

Fixed term staff over 15hr p/w get a Priv, but no Tribe. Only permanent staff over 15hr p/w get the Priv and Tribe Card.

So if someone works for Virgin on a casual basis - e.g. 5 hours per week - they don't get any travel discounts, no matter whether they are fixed or permanent staff?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for all your help guys.

Just to clarify I am full time, but fixed term until the end of December

Strange I don't get Virgin travel... Oh well.

Well AlterEgo did say the Tribe card is being replaced by a "new ID card." So maybe your staff ID card is sufficient at the moment?

It seems very strange that you can't travel for free on Virgin if you work for them, especially if you're using them to travel to/from work! I would just continue to show your staff ID card to the TM when you board the train - I doubt you'll ever be asked to pay.

 

[The Colonel]

Tribe card

What is a tribe card, please?

 

[FManc]

So if someone works for Virgin on a casual basis - e.g. 5 hours per week - they don't get any travel discounts, no matter whether they are fixed or permanent staff?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well AlterEgo did say the Tribe card is being replaced by a "new ID card." So maybe your staff ID card is sufficient at the moment?

It seems very strange that you can't travel for free on Virgin if you work for them, especially if you're using them to travel to/from work! I would just continue to show your staff ID card to the TM when you board the train - I doubt you'll ever be asked to pay.

My OH who works for VT was saying that a member of staff (on a fixed-term contract) was recently given an Unpaid Fare Notice which seemed pretty unfair. He had his ID on him, but they called Resources to make sure he actually worked for the company and the barrier staff still said he had to buy a ticket. He didn't have enough money on him so they issued him a UFN. Bizzare.

 

[Mike C]

At Eurostar we used to get a tribe card. I think we still get some concession on Virgin products/services.

 

[scotsman]

So if someone works for Virgin on a casual basis - e.g. 5 hours per week - they don't get any travel discounts, no matter whether they are fixed or permanent staff?

Absolutely, my mate had to pay to get to work in Glasgow from Edinburgh every weekend

 

[Sammy h]

I have emailed the lady who deals with staff travel to save any confusion. Although it must be said when I have jumped on it normally is for work purposes.

I didn't see a problem as long as I informed the TM before I board, but obviously there could be issues there.

If the tribe card is no more what is used now for Virgin staff?

 

[34D]

Fixed term staff over 15hr p/w get a Priv, but no Tribe. Only permanent staff over 15hr p/w get the Priv and Tribe Card.

Part time and fixed term aren't the same thing.

Two pieces of legislation:
The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000
Fixed Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2002 (SI 2002/2034)
Agency Workers Regs 2010 http://www.cipd.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F5FE1F53-27AC-4F62-8772-FB9B3550E1B6/0/5400_Equaltreatmentforagencyworkersguide.pdf

I'll let someone else do the reading

 

[Asian Demon]

I have emailed the lady who deals with staff travel to save any confusion. Although it must be said when I have jumped on it normally is for work purposes.

I didn't see a problem as long as I informed the TM before I board, but obviously there could be issues there.

If the tribe card is no more what is used now for Virgin staff?

The new card is the black crew card which has a photo of the individual on it as well as all the entitlements they have.

I'm going to give a word of advice here. Don't jump on the train without getting a ticket under any circumstances. It takes one revenue guy, a disgruntled train manager, or a member of management on board to get iffy and have your job for it. I've known it to happen and it's not worth it.

Also for clarification, over 15 hours a week and fixed term - Priv and no travel entitlement (besides a staff duty pass on a discretionary basis)

15 hours and permanent (F/T and P/T) = Crew card and Priv.

Under 15 hours a week = No Priv

It's a really messed up system to say the least.

 

[AlterEgo]

What is a tribe card, please?

As has been said previously, it doesn't exist any more as of a few months ago.

It was a card used to secure discounts on Virgin Group services (and some other companies), and as proof of free travel entitlement on Virgin Trains. The discount scheme has now been revamped and made cardless, a little like a cashback scheme.

As Tribe Cards no longer exist, a Crew card which has a photograph has now been issued to everyone so entitled as proof of travel facilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I work for Virgin and have just received my TOC priv card which was attached to the bottom of a letter, it is only valid until 30th June, is this correct? I am on a temp contract until December (fingers crossed it will be perm) - I was just wondering.

All Privs are valid until 30 June and are renewed automatically by ATOC.

 

[Wolfie]

38D has already posted legislation which suggests Virgin are on VERY dubious legal grounds penalising part-timers and fixed term employees. With effect from last year the same applies to agency staff. See:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscor.../a/11-949-agency-workers-regulations-guidance

Legal advice specifically mentioning the inclusion of fringe benefits within the scope of the legislation 38D mentioned:
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/articles/candidate/c1/s1277/a3757.html

With effect from last year the same applies to agency staff. See:
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscor.../a/11-949-agency-workers-regulations-guidance

 

[island]

...once they get to 12 weeks that is.

 

[RJ]

15 hours is the general minimum weekly hours for Priv entitlement across the board, not just for Virgin.

Virgin already pay their employees very well, it would take a very foolish person to complain about the way the benefits work.

 

[All Line Rover]

15 hours is the general minimum weekly hours for Priv entitlement across the board, not just for Virgin.

Virgin already pay their employees very well, it would take a very foolish person to complain about the way the benefits work.

Virgin do pay very well - I don't dispute that. But I've seen some "casual" jobs advertised recently at £11/h. If you live in Crewe and work in Preston (which is feasible, considering how early the trains start), you've got to pay £23.50 each time just to get to work! That takes a big bite out of your earnings. (Although there are ways around that, of course. )

 

[Wolfie]

15 hours is the general minimum weekly hours for Priv entitlement across the board, not just for Virgin.

Virgin already pay their employees very well, it would take a very foolish person to complain about the way the benefits work.

....or someone, for example, who has finished their fixed contract, has no intention of undertaking further work in the rail industry and fancies a few extra bob in their pocket via an industrial tribunal!!!

my bold and italics

RJ Someone who benefits from the current situation may take such a view, someone who does not will, perhaps, not!

Just because something is general, and has been the way it is for a long time, does not necessarily make it either right or legal. If other TOCS pay less well than Virgin they are perhaps even more vulnerable to legal action.

 

[AlterEgo]

38D has already posted legislation which suggests Virgin are on VERY dubious legal grounds penalising part-timers and fixed term employees. With effect from last year the same applies to agency staff. See:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscor.../a/11-949-agency-workers-regulations-guidance
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
38D has already posted legislation which suggests Virgin are on VERY dubious legal grounds penalising part-timers and fixed term employees.

Legak advice specifically mentioning the inclusion of fringe benefits within the scope of the legislation 38D mentioned:
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/articles/candidate/c1/s1277/a3757.html

With effect from last year the same applies to agency staff. See:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscor.../a/11-949-agency-workers-regulations-guidance

Nowhere in any employee's contract are travel facilities included, even full-time ones like myself. I am not contractually entitled to them.

I couldn't comment on the legality or relevance of this, just putting it into context.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Nowhere in any employee's contract are travel facilities included, even full-time ones like myself. I am not contractually entitled to them.

I couldn't comment on the legality or relevance of this, just putting it into context.

Indeed, when recieving my travel card, both now and when it was GNER, it came accompanyed with a letter explaining the rules and that it was a discretionary perk which could be withdrawn at anytime. Nothing mentioned in the employee contract. I guess thats how BA got around withdrawing the travel perks of striking workers.

 

[Sammy h]

15 hours is the general minimum weekly hours for Priv entitlement across the board, not just for Virgin.

Virgin already pay their employees very well, it would take a very foolish person to complain about the way the benefits work.

I hope my point has not come across that way. It was just a genuine question which I thought I would ask you all on here.

I am not complaining at ANYTHING, just so that you are all aware.

I just find it strange that I am entitled to a priv card, but not Virgin travel.

 

[RJ]

It wasn't aimed at you, but rather the jealous people who feel that bulldozing their way into getting extra benefits is appropriate. I don't have a Priv or free travel on the TOC I work for, but I'm not going to complain. Have a look at the retail or catering industries, where jobs may have much worse conditions and pay closer to minimum wage - that's why I don't feel the need to mouth off about non contractual benefits.

Two pieces of legislation:
The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000
Fixed Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2002 (SI 2002/2034)
Agency Workers Regs 2010 http://www.cipd.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/.../5400_Equaltreatmentforagencyworkersguide.pdf

I'll let someone else do the reading

Firstly what has the Agency Workers Regs (sic) 2010 got to do with anything? Casual CSAs are not hired in by an agency, they're employed by Virgin Trains.

Secondly, less favourable treatment of fixed term employees is permitted, so long as there is an objective justification for it.

Source: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Understandingyourworkstatus/Fixedtermworkers/DG_10027735

 

[34D]

38D has already posted legislation which suggests Virgin are on VERY dubious legal grounds penalising part-timers and fixed term employees.

Legak advice specifically mentioning the inclusion of fringe benefits within the scope of the legislation 38D mentioned:
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/articles/candidate/c1/s1277/a3757.html

With effect from last year the same applies to agency staff. See:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscor.../a/11-949-agency-workers-regulations-guidance

I'm 34D (hitchin steam-era shedcode) as opposed to 38D which I think would be something broad gauge.

Agenct workers regs are indeed relevant, as many TOCs use agency staff.

Age discrimination also - why should those in their 40s get a benefit that those in their 20s don't have

 

[Wolfie]

I'm 34D (hitchin steam-era shedcode) as opposed to 38D which I think would be something broad gauge.

Agenct workers regs are indeed relevant, as many TOCs use agency staff.

Age discrimination also - why should those in their 40s get a benefit that those in their 20s don't have

my bold and italics!

opps, sorry, had it been 38DD I fear it might have been freudian!!!

 

[RJ]

I'm 34D (hitchin steam-era shedcode) as opposed to 38D which I think would be something broad gauge.

Agenct workers regs are indeed relevant, as many TOCs use agency staff.

Age discrimination also - why should those in their 40s get a benefit that those in their 20s don't have

My flatmate at university is 19 and has a safeguarded Priv, whereas I'm 20 and I don't. Don't think age discrimination comes into it.

Virgin contract Carlisle to provide staff cleaning duties. The only other on board staff are the driver, train manager and SM/ASM/CSAs who manage the shop and First Class service, so what has agency regs got to do with this thread?

 

[bb21]

My flatmate at university is 19 and has a safeguarded Priv, whereas I'm 20 and I don't. Don't think age discrimination comes into it.

Virgin contract Carlisle to provide staff cleaning duties. The only other on board staff are the driver, train manager and SM/ASM/CSAs who manage the shop and First Class service, so what has agency regs got to do with this thread?

I think he meant in the context of all TOCs, not just specifically Virgin.

Agenct workers regs are indeed relevant, as many TOCs use agency staff.

 

[RJ]

I think he meant in the context of all TOCs, not just specifically Virgin.

All posts in the thread before that one, including that of mine that was quoted within that post, were specifically discussing Virgin Trains.

If 34D mistakenly assumed that CSAs were agency staff then fair enough, no point in further derailing the thread.