TOCs no longer using any ex-BR stock

[cactustwirly]

It could also be EMT, I don't see much new stock moving to Lincolnshire anytime soon.

 

[Mikey C]

I can see many BR era DMUs (especially the 156s, 158/9s and 165/6s) and the Mk3 carriages lingering for a while, especially diesel hauled ones like on Chiltern, with the lack of electrification. Indeed they will probably outlive more recent BR EMUs like the Networkers which are likely to be displaced from Southeastern soon and have nowhere to go really (unless someone converts them into DMUs or battery trains!)

 

[edwin_m]

Apart from the four 185s that are subleased in and the 333s!

I always forget Merseyrail, even though I used to use them 5 days a week!
Northern have the 333s though, as mentioned by domh245 above.

Not sure if the 185s count under whatever rules apply to this thread, but I grant you the 333s and have edited accordingly. Must have subliminally absorbed all the messages on here about Northern having no new trains...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not sure if the 185s count under whatever rules apply to this thread, but I grant you the 333s and have edited accordingly. Must have subliminally absorbed all the messages on here about Northern having no new trains...

When I omitted Northern I hadn't considered the 185s, but I wouldn't have counted them anyway. I think the 333s are often forgotten about because they only have a very limited operating area compared to the overall size of the franchise.

 

[route101]

I wonder how long the 156s will last , they are approaching 30 years old , maybe another 20

 

[Rail Blues]

I wonder how long the 156s will last , they are approaching 30 years old , maybe another 20

I'd say 10/15 at a push. The last few I've travelled in didn't look or sound like units with another 2 decades of life left in them. Mind you the lack of obvious replacements and dwindling prospects for electrification could see them limp on for longer.

 

[Failed Unit]

How old was the last 1st gen DMU when it retired? Those bubbles have only recently gone. They must have had their 50th birthday. (Sorry about drift but didn’t think it was worth a new thread)

 

[Rail Blues]

How old was the last 1st gen DMU when it retired? Those bubbles have only recently gone. They must have had their 50th birthday. (Sorry about drift but didn’t think it was worth a new thread)

An odd unit or two, but not en masse.

 

[hexagon789]

How old was the last 1st gen DMU when it retired? Those bubbles have only recently gone. They must have had their 50th birthday. (Sorry about drift but didn’t think it was worth a new thread)

I think some 101s lasted until 2004 in the Manchester area, otherwise the Bubble Cars like you say have only recently gone.

 

[Strathclyder]

It'll probably be someone who currently runs BR stock built in the 90s.

The original 320s spring to mind in that respect (just barely, entering service in 1990) for ScotRail. They are currently undergoing a internal refurbishment to bring them into line with the 318s & 320/4s, which should see them comfortably through to 2025.

 

[jon0844]

It will be whoever is running the Isle of Wight.

They'll be using pre-BR stock!

 

[SteveyBee131]

How old was the last 1st gen DMU when it retired? Those bubbles have only recently gone. They must have had their 50th birthday. (Sorry about drift but didn’t think it was worth a new thread)

If they were built in 1960 that would make them 57 (wow! ).

For a class 156 to be the same age, it'd be still in service in 2044, a 158 would be still in service in 2046 (early built examples of each anyway) I wonder if any will

 

[ac6000cw]

If they were built in 1960 that would make them 57 (wow! ).

Not passenger stock, but some of the remaining class 08 shunting locos might have passed their 60th birthday (as the production run lasted from 1952 to 1962).

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not sure the life span of the Chiltern bubble cars can be taken as representative of DMUs in general, the other ones of a similar age were withdrawn a long time ago

Has thought been given to re-engining the Sprinters with more modern (and cleaner) engines?

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not sure the life span of the Chiltern bubble cars can be taken as representative of DMUs in general, the other ones of a similar age were withdrawn a long time ago

Has thought been given to re-engining the Sprinters with more modern (and cleaner) engines?

Replacing the engine brings down the latest emissions standards, requiring extra equipment for which there probably isn't space without a major rebuild.

According to railcar.co.uk the 101s dated from 1956, so the design was in service for about 58 years although the last survivors may have been from later builds.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Don't TPE hire in Northern 156 units for the Blackpool service?

 

[AndrewE]

TPE are only having MK3's for a very short period so its hardly worth mentioning.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that withdrawal! I'll bet that the passenger growth is so great that they are stretched and kept in service for a decade or two, while "all" the new DMUs are used in multiple to make longer trains...

 

[Bertie the bus]

Don't TPE hire in Northern 156 units for the Blackpool service?

No. TPE haven't run services to Blackpool for nearly 2 years.

 

[47802]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that withdrawal! I'll bet that the passenger growth is so great that they are stretched and kept in service for a decade or two, while "all" the new DMUs are used in multiple to make longer trains...

Unlikely you would have to make the MK3's PRM compliant for starter's, if they really needed to more likely to keep more of the 185's or order additional CAF Carriages.

 

[roversfan2001]

Don't TPE hire in Northern 156 units for the Blackpool service?

Other way round, Northern hire in TPE 185s for the Blackpool/Barrow services.

 

[BestWestern]

Northern will be using their ex-BR sprinters and 319s until at least 2025 which is when the new franchise is due to be awarded, so I would think that they'll be the last one using ex-BR stock if the current trend of fleet replacement continues for all of the other franchises awarded before then.

GWR will easily still be using class 165 & 166 Turbo units on its 'West' services at that stage.

 

[whhistle]

It could also be EMT, I don't see much new stock moving to Lincolnshire anytime soon.

I wonder if the next franchisee would opt for a total replacement of all (sprinter) trains.
Fits with the current trend and gives the operator a more uniform fleet. By the time they come to run the franchise, the Northern diesels should be delivered no? So that means it'll be fairly quick to grab some of the same type.

 

[swaldman]

Northern will be using their ex-BR sprinters and 319s until at least 2025 which is when the new franchise is due to be awarded, so I would think that they'll be the last one using ex-BR stock if the current trend of fleet replacement continues for all of the other franchises awarded before then.

Given what's being spent on them, I really hope Scotrail will have their HSTs for more than 7 years! Plus the 158s that AFAIK they're not planning to get rid of.

 

[AndrewE]

Unlikely you would have to make the MK3's PRM compliant for starter's, if they really needed to more likely to keep more of the 185's or order additional CAF Carriages.

Good point. I was forgetting the Mk3s are only supposed to be a stop-gap measure. Good job we shall still be able to get our HST/Mk 3 ride fix in Scotland!

 

[K.o.R]

only supposed to be a stop-gap measure

Remember that nothing lasts as long as a temporary measure.

 

[AndrewE]

Remember that nothing lasts as long as a temporary measure.

Correct: probably not the way you meant it, but if something is robust enough to work on the railway at all, it will probably turn into a permanent feature. Look at the Pacers...

 

[HLE]

Let’s be sensible here if we’re talking about BR stock and how long it will last.
Currently there are no diesel units ‘surplus’ in the country. New trains are being ordered and produced but won’t eliminate much more than pacers and a few sprinters, in terms of diesel units anyway. A few cascades here and there but not many classes will end up in the scrapyard

We are a long, long way off seeing all BR era stock withdrawn. Possibly 2/3 decades.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Remember that nothing lasts as long as a temporary measure.

But the Pacers didn't have their replacement ordered; there aren't enough 68s to haul all the Mark 5s and the Mark 3s as well.

 

[The Ham]

My guess for last franchises running BR units would be Scotland or Wales with one of the London commuter franchises coming third (only because the newer units will be cascaded away as the older units are due to be replaced by electrification).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Let’s be sensible here if we’re talking about BR stock and how long it will last.
Currently there are no diesel units ‘surplus’ in the country. New trains are being ordered and produced but won’t eliminate much more than pacers and a few sprinters, in terms of diesel units anyway. A few cascades here and there but not many classes will end up in the scrapyard

We are a long, long way off seeing all BR era stock withdrawn. Possibly 2/3 decades.

But the Pacers didn't have their replacement ordered; there aren't enough 68s to haul all the Mark 5s and the Mark 3s as well.

If we look solely at numbers of vehicles, the 195s won't even replace Pacers at a 1:1 ratio. Yes, the vehicles are longer, and yes, the remainder will be replaced by cascaded stock, but at the very least there should be a brand new DMU vehicle for every Pacer vehicle being withdrawn- including those at ATW and GWR. As with the 195 order, not necessarily as a direct replacement but with internal cascades where appropriate. Yes, there are the units freed up by electrification, but those should be used to (belatedly) cope with growth.

It's often said that new rolling stock introduction flits between feast and famine, but this doesn't apply in the regions: it's been just famine (with a handful of exceptions) since the late 1980s. Those areas deserve a feast, just this once.