Todmorden Curve

[cle]

Will it be run by Pacers?

Would be a shame (especially for indelible photo ops!) for a new route opening up a town to a big market is served by old crap.

 

[Deerfold]

That's the plan - posters advising of the closure went up at Blackburn station last week (guessing that's where the Lancashire Telegraph journalist got the story from! )

With a stated closure period of 20 weeks that makes for a re-opening date of 31st March by my reckoning. How long will be needed for route learning, and from which depots will the crews be drawn? I'm guessing the first trains over the curve will be spotted by the end of March.

Hadn't realised people didn't know when the closure was - it's in the May 2013 Caldervale timetable...

http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFile...bles/Caldervale_MayDec2013_TrainTimetable.pdf

 

[CalderRail]

While they are closing the tunnel, are they adding any of the equipment for eventual electrification?

 

[Eagle]

Will it be run by Pacers?

Given Northern's track record, it'll probably be a mixed bag of Pacers, 150s and 153s. Maybe with a 158 occasionally as a treat.

 

[Sox]

I know this belongs elsewhere but I post it for general background information:

"Blackburn to Manchester link set to get massive improvements"

At this rate, Blackburn will be be more like a mini Crewe. Reminds me that I once read, in the days of King Cotton, there were originally direct services from Blackburn to London, such was the importance of the (former) town.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10674191.Blackburn_to_Manchester_link_set_to_get_massive_improvements/

 

[L&Y Robert]

I know this belongs elsewhere but I post it for general background information:

"Blackburn to Manchester link set to get massive improvements"

At this rate, Blackburn will be be more like a mini Crewe. Reminds me that I once read, in the days of King Cotton, there were originally direct services from Blackburn to London, such was the importance of the (former) town.
QUOTE]

That'd be the 13-25 (ish) out of Burnley Bank Top (later lamely called "Central" although it was nowhere near the centre). Known thereabouts as "The London", the train started in Colne, called at Nelson, maybe Brierfield, certainly Accrington, then Blackburn. Usually a Black 5 in charge. Then up the hill through Darwen, Sough Tunnel etc. etc. then Bolton and via Clifton Junction to Manchester Victoria and somehow thence to Stockport. I was taken to London on this train several times (to Motor Show, or our relations in Surrey for example) - that's when I were a lad, tha'knows. It'd be in't skoil holls, dusta' see?
Sorry, folks. The memories bring it on!

 

[Welshman]

That'd be the 13-25 (ish) out of Burnley Bank Top (later lamely called "Central" although it was nowhere near the centre). Known thereabouts as "The London", the train started in Colne, called at Nelson, maybe Brierfield, certainly Accrington, then Blackburn. Usually a Black 5 in charge. Then up the hill through Darwen, Sough Tunnel etc. etc. then Bolton and via Clifton Junction to Manchester Victoria and somehow thence to Stockport. I was taken to London on this train several times (to Motor Show, or our relations in Surrey for example) - that's when I were a lad, tha'knows. It'd be in't skoil holls, dusta' see?
Sorry, folks. The memories bring it on!

Presumably from Manchester Victoria it went up the bank to Miles Platting, then along the Stalybridge line to Droylsden, turned right, and down the link to Denton, and on to Stockport.

 

[STANDISH]

Yes you are quite correct about the route. 11.55am from Colne arrive at Stockport 2.01pm

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Presumably from Manchester Victoria it went up the bank to Miles Platting, then along the Stalybridge line to Droylsden, turned right, and down the link to Denton, and on to Stockport.

That was in the days when Droylsden was a four-platform junction station.

 

[billio]

Yes you are quite correct about the route. 11.55am from Colne arrive at Stockport 2.01pm

A journey today that would take 2 hours and 25 minutes or possibly up to 20 minutes longer.

 

[spongsdad]

I know this belongs els

At this rate, Blackburn will be be more like a mini Crewe. Reminds me that I once read, in the days of King Cotton, there were originally direct services from Blackburn to London, such was the importance of the (former) town.
QUOTE]

That'd be the 13-25 (ish) out of Burnley Bank Top (later lamely called "Central" although it was nowhere near the centre). Known thereabouts as "The London", the train started in Colne, called at Nelson, maybe Brierfield, certainly Accrington, then Blackburn. Usually a Black 5 in charge. Then up the hill through Darwen, Sough Tunnel etc. etc. then Bolton and via Clifton Junction to Manchester Victoria and somehow thence to Stockport. I was taken to London on this train several times (to Motor Show, or our relations in Surrey for example) - that's when I were a lad, tha'knows. It'd be in't skoil holls, dusta' see?
Sorry, folks. The memories bring it on!

Hi Folks,
I'm new to this forum but I couldn't resist adding to this posts of Sox & L&Y Robert.
During the 50's and early 60's, East Lancashire was well served by direct services to and from London. As a young man, I used to travel from Burnley Central to Blackburn on the 8:15 to Euston, which left Colne at 8:00 as I recall. It was rostered for a Newton Heath crew and was usually hauled by one of that depot's Jubilee locomotives; if none was available it was a Black 5 from the same depot that deputised.
Whilst not wishing to contradict, my recollection is that the lunchtime service was around 12:15 from Colne.
The earlier train was usually 8 coaches and the station foreman at Burnley Central (I think his name was Rayner) used to announce with great panache, "The first three for Stockport, the last five for London Euston". I think both trains were split at Stockport and the rear carriages attached to services out of the then Manchester London Road.
There were balancing return services leaving Euston at approx. 2:45pm and 6:30pm They arrived in Burnley at about 8:45 and midnight respectively. From Stockport these were in the charge of Accrington and latterly Rose Grove's Black 5s (44940, 44948/9). All direct services ceased with the electrification of the west Coast main line South of Crewe.

Happy days!

 

[Sox]

Hi Folks,
I'm new to this forum but I couldn't resist adding to this posts of Sox & L&Y Robert.
During the 50's and early 60's, East Lancashire was well served by direct services to and from London. As a young man, I used to travel from Burnley Central to Blackburn on the 8:15 to Euston, which left Colne at 8:00 as I recall. It was rostered for a Newton Heath crew and was usually hauled by one of that depot's Jubilee locomotives; if none was available it was a Black 5 from the same depot that deputised.
Whilst not wishing to contradict, my recollection is that the lunchtime service was around 12:15 from Colne.
The earlier train was usually 8 coaches and the station foreman at Burnley Central (I think his name was Rayner) used to announce with great panache, "The first three for Stockport, the last five for London Euston". I think both trains were split at Stockport and the rear carriages attached to services out of the then Manchester London Road.
There were balancing return services leaving Euston at approx. 2:45pm and 6:30pm They arrived in Burnley at about 8:45 and midnight respectively. From Stockport these were in the charge of Accrington and latterly Rose Grove's Black 5s (44940, 44948/9). All direct services ceased with the electrification of the west Coast main line South of Crewe.

Happy days!

Interesting stuff, I had imagined by direct services they meant Blackburn to London via the Farrington curve.

For the same period, say you were in a "hurry", what other options would be available for getting from Blackburn to London by train and in what journey times (I am curious to do a comparison with today's 2hr 56mins by changing at Preston)?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There was another service from East Lancashire to Manchester Victoria station that ran from Accrington via Bury Bolton Street in the days of yore that offered yet another rail route as an option.

 

[L&Y Robert]

There was another service from East Lancashire to Manchester Victoria station that ran from Accrington via Bury Bolton Street in the days of yore that offered yet another rail route as an option.

You got in before me, Paul! My commuter route in late 50s! Four shillings return to Manchester from Accrington, but six and ten from Burnley Barracks! Option to get the electric at Bury, for a change maybe, but usually it was the other way round - the Bury people waited for "The Steamer" via Clifton Junction and Salford because it was quicker and WARMER.

 

[PR1Berske]

4/ from Accrington but 6/10 from Burnley? And I thought fares were made up on the spot these days!

 

[Welshman]

4/ from Accrington but 6/10 from Burnley? And I thought fares were made up on the spot these days!

And in those days it wouldn't have been so easy to split your ticket at Accrington, as presumably Burnley only stocked tickets from Burnley!

P.S. - I think there was also a regular service from Colne to Manchester Victoria which went that way. I have in my mind a distant memory of going up Baxenden Bank, sitting in the front seat of a 2 car Cravens dmu.

 

[spongsdad]

As late as 1962, there were 17 trains a day each way using the Clifton Junction, Bury, Ramsbottom, Helmshore and Baxenden route to Burnley and Colne. For travellers from Burnley and Colne, this was by far the quickest way to Manchester. The 1709 from Victoria was scheduled to Burnley in just 50 minutes. It is interesting that once the "new" route via Todmorden is open, there seems to be the prospect of matching these travel times. I should add, however that most journeys were by stopping trains and typically took an hour and five minutes.

 

[L&Y Robert]

The 1709 from Victoria was scheduled to Burnley in just 50 minutes.

Yes, that was my commute return if I was lucky - about 17-15 at Salford as I remember, bit of a scramble if you finished work at five. After Salford, non-stop to Accrington - that's how they got to Burnley within the hour! It used to clatter through Bury Bolton St. at speed, and I was always slightly anxious because there was a 'lateral jolt' just before the road bridge, and a facing crossover under the bridge. But of course we always sailed through intact, then the "Formaldihide Works" through the LH window and off up the hill to Ramsbottom.

 

[Welshman]

Yes, that was my commute return if I was lucky - about 17-15 at Salford as I remember, bit of a scramble if you finished work at five. After Salford, non-stop to Accrington - that's how they got to Burnley within the hour! It used to clatter through Bury Bolton St. at speed, and I was always slightly anxious because there was a 'lateral jolt' just before the road bridge, and a facing crossover under the bridge. But of course we always sailed through intact, then the "Formaldihide Works" through the LH window and off up the hill to Ramsbottom.

I've revived this thread because I've just found an interesting reference to the forerunner of the service L&Y Robert quotes above, in Eric Mason's The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway in the Twentieth Century.

Apparently, in 1911, it used to depart Salford at 4.25pm for Colne, and was non-stop right to Burnley Barracks. On Tuesdays and Fridays, Accrington passengers were served by a train of their own, which followed only some 3 minutes behind the 4.25pm, but on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, the Accrington section was slipped from the main 4.25pm express.

Given the layout at Accrington, this was an even trickier business than that normally involved with slipping coaches. Mason describes how:-

"The train of ten coaches had to be brought carefully down the 1 in 40 Baxenden Bank, to prepare for the speed restriction of 5 m.p.h. through the sharp curve at Accrington station, but sufficient vacuum had to be re-created in the train pipe, before entering Accrington station, to provide the slip guard with his full reserve brake power for emergencies. Moreover, the station layout was such that the exchange of signals between enginemen and guard had to be passed on by a third man on the platform".

With a speed restriction through the station of only 5 m.p.h. it is difficult to see what commercial gain was achieved by running non-stop, but it must have been an interesting operation to witness.

 

[ianhr]

Yesterday, 27/9/13, looking from a Manchester train approaching Todmorden, track appears to have been laid on about 1/2 the length of the curve + a substantial stockpile of materials (track panels, ballast, cable etc) on the west side of the main line just north of the viaduct.

 

[AndyHudds]

Yesterday, 27/9/13, looking from a Manchester train approaching Todmorden, track appears to have been laid on about 1/2 the length of the curve + a substantial stockpile of materials (track panels, ballast, cable etc) on the west side of the main line just north of the viaduct.

Yes, I've used the York to Blackpool service twice in the last week and you are quite correct some track does appear to have been laid, its stopped short on connecting it in the Burnley direction though. I assume they probably will connect this section when the blockade is on for the repairs to Holme Tunnel.

 

[ianhr]

Yes, I've used the York to Blackpool service twice in the last week and you are quite correct some track does appear to have been laid, its stopped short on connecting it in the Burnley direction though. I assume they probably will connect this section when the blockade is on for the repairs to Holme Tunnel.

Yes Manchester end not connected yet either, I also assume that they might do the south junction during November Sunday closures of the Halifax-Rochdale section.

 

[Signal Head]

Yes Manchester end not connected yet either, I also assume that they might do the south junction during November Sunday closures of the Halifax-Rochdale section.

Well, there's nothing to connect it to, yet.
An area has been cleared at the Leeds end of the Up platform, opposite the site of the new crossover.
There are runs of timber laid out, possibly this is where the pointwork will be built up ready for laying in.

 

[L&Y Robert]

To those who pass by - I would welcome any snippets of info. on the progress of this project, however small.

 

[Signal Head]

To those who pass by - I would welcome any snippets of info. on the progress of this project, however small.

The new junction ironwork is scheduled to go in at the end of this month.

I believe the new crossover is already laid out at the Yorkshire end of the Up platform, ie next to its final position between station and viaduct (and not at the other end of the station as some others seem to think!).

 

[CalderRail]

I went past the curve today, there's a lot of work looks to have been done on the curve itself.

Sadly I couldn't take time to look around Todmorden station itself, as the police were discouraging sightseeing due to the unpleasantness in Bradford.

 

[HowardGWR]

I went past the curve today, there's a lot of work looks to have been done on the curve itself.

Sadly I couldn't take time to look around Todmorden station itself, as the police were discouraging sightseeing due to the unpleasantness in Bradford.

My mind is boggling - do elaborate (unless it's sub judice).

 

[Darren R]

EDL rally

 

[HowardGWR]

EDL rally

Any of them left? I suppose the BNP, which was going down the pan, have transferred membership to EDL? The serious point is that I feel sorry for rail staff and the police, etc. I know some will say, well they get overtime on these demos but - rather them than me.

This has nothing to do with the curve, sorry.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sadly I couldn't take time to look around Todmorden station itself, as the police were discouraging sightseeing due to the unpleasantness in Bradford.

I take it only the holders of current rail tickets were allowed on Todmorden railway station. I suppose you could have booked a ticket from there to either Walsden or Hebden Bridge.