"Too many railway workers are paid to do nothing"

[Beveridges]

I suspect that the rail industry is like any other in that there are people who work very hard, people who work very hard at not working and everything in between.

This is very true but it really depends on the job role. Some jobs allow people to not do much work all if they want. Some (but not all) station-based jobs for example. One station I knew well (not mentioning any) was overmanned on the despatch side, allowing them to not do much work at all, often going for 2 hour "smoking breaks" and the station supervisor who was supposed to be in a customer info office was often hiding for long periods of time, and a station manager who did nothing but have a laugh with his mates on his mobile.

Other jobs (such as maintenance depot work and mainline train driving) you have no choice but to work very hard as the work is given to you and theres nothing you can do to avoid any of it.

 

[GB]

You say you knew the station very well, but in what way? As a regular passenger or employee?

 

[exile]

A station I know has a staff member in the ticket office full time, but selling very few tickets. Give him a portable ticket machine and get him out on the platform where he'd be visible to the public and complaints would be a lot fewer. Not his fault, he's doing as he's told by management.

 

[Toots]

You say you knew the station very well, but in what way? As a regular passenger or employee?

You obviously weren't a regular on Railchat!!,Mick's (Beverages) railway career is well documented on that ,and a number of forums.....

 

[chuckles1066]

Filton Abbeywood has a manual ticket check every M-F morning from about 0700-1000! with 4 staff usually when i go through.

Now why would you post something that we both know isn't true?

I was there (yet again) on Friday, had to attend a meeting in Swindon at 9 so was at the station by 7.30 to get the 7.43.

No-one on the bridge, no-one at the entrance to the MOD. So not a million miles away from my previous experiences there.

I'm in Bath for another course for a week from 1st-5th October, I'll report my findings again.

 

[Flamingo]

Now why would you post something that we both know isn't true?

I was there (yet again) on Friday, had to attend a meeting in Swindon at 9 so was at the station by 7.30 to get the 7.43.

No-one on the bridge, no-one at the entrance to the MOD. So not a million miles away from my previous experiences there.

I'm in Bath for another course for a week from 1st-5th October, I'll report my findings again.

Well, we can write that post already:

"FGW crap.., whing whinge..., I had to stand for ten minutes..., Richard Branson should be running it..., etc." :roll:

As I've said, every time I stop at Patchway and look at the empty platform, I think of you...

 

[br34095]

I used to work at Southampton Station. Now I realise this was a long time ago but the example is still valid.
As a shunter, I used to have some days when I had a shunt to do at the beginning of my shift, one to do a couple of hours later and one to do a short while before I went home, with nothing in between.
It was illogical to ask a person to come in to do a 45 minute job, go home and then come back again a short while later to do another, go home and repeat.
Between times I was expected to be “available” on the platform, or cover some break times.
Other staff were not qualified to do my job, and had their jobs to do anyway.
As far as the public was concerned, I was being paid most of the day to do nothing.

 

[313103]

It could be argued that every time i am spare i am being paid to do nothing, but being spare is often the difference between a cancelled train and a running train.

So what should i do when i am spare inist to the boss that i should be working to get paid or by sitting spare i shouldnt get paid until a job comes up and if after 8 hours of doing nothing i should tell my boss i was spare and didnt do a thing so i shouldnt get paid!

 

[Beveridges]

Yes but being 'spare' you are getting paid for being there, being available to be called out at a moments notice.

I currently have a relatively busy job (Depot driving) but used to have one where I didnt do very much all day - Platform staff at not really the busiest of stations - basically little more involved than sitting in an office and despatching a train every 20 minutes then go back to sitting in an office. Hardly any questions asked from passengers most of the time as well, so not much to do in that department either.
You could argue I was getting paid to do nothing. However, it dragged, and the lack of action made it boring, so I felt like I was being paid to put up with being stuck there, with nothing to do most of the time. I prefer my current role with it being busier as it doesnt drag.

 

[D1009]

Now why would you post something that we both know isn't true?

I was there (yet again) on Friday, had to attend a meeting in Swindon at 9 so was at the station by 7.30 to get the 7.43.

No-one on the bridge, no-one at the entrance to the MOD. So not a million miles away from my previous experiences there.

I was on a Gloucester - Weymouth on Thursday morning about 0925(?), and there were 2 ladies with Advantix machines at the MOD entrance.

 

[chuckles1066]

Well, we can write that post already:

"FGW crap.., whing whinge..., I had to stand for ten minutes..., Richard Branson should be running it..., etc." :roll:

As I've said, every time I stop at Patchway and look at the empty platform, I think of you...

Well I can award you ten out of ten for foresight.

Got a call yesterday lunchtime asking whether I could oversee some project management today in Bath - sorry for the very short notice but the guy who's supposed to be doing it has gone down with pleurisy (or something).

So off I trundled to Bristol Parkway to hand over my £9. Do you know that feeling you get when you buy your lottery tickets.....that little voice telling you that you're p1$$ing your money up against the wall? Even as I was stood there in the queue listening to the elderly couple at the solitary open ticket desk wanting to know details of every service in October between Bristol and Kings Lynn via Portsmouth Harbour, I kept thinking "I really ought to drive tomorrow". Why didn't I listen to myself?

Hey ho, I guess I'll never learn.....as today's events proved (yet again).

So the 8.39a.m service into Patchway didn't materialise (that's the hourly service that I keep bleating on about)......yep, simply didn't turn up. Maybe it's FGW's way of subliminally imparting to the punters there that an hourly service isn't so bad after all, is it? No information, nothing, the thing just nevcer arrived......how do you make a several hundred tonne train disappear off of the face of the planet?

So I hi-tailed it across to Filton Abbeywood - deja vu, anyone?

No RPI's on the bridge (even though another poster suggested they're there religiously) but I soon saw why. The platform to Bristol contained what appeared to be the cast of Ben Hur; I have never seen so many people there.....and some of them were not happy. I'm not surprised the RPI's jumped ship, I wouldn't have fancied having to explain to them what was happening.....or not, as in this case.

Turns out most of them had been there since 8a.m and hadn't seen a single train stop at that platform.....and by now it's 9.15a.m.

Who operates the display boards? Whether it's FGW or another outfit, they want shooting. Trains were being shown as being on time when, in fact, their supposed arrival time was ten minutes previous.....and then they simply disappeared off of the screen altogether!

Had they been cancelled? Fallen into the railway equivalent of a black hole? FFS, it's basic business sense to keep your customers informed.

Worst performance yet FGW.

And that's saying something.

 

[Sheepshead]

Quite enjoyed reading all the comments, it has always amused me that folk have the time, to be noticing people supposedly doing nothing! I have had very busy days over the years where upon reaching the end of a shift its been nice to mull over the days events with other staff on a shift change.
This can give the illusion of lots of staff being about, whilst the reality is far from it. Some not even on duty or being paid but on way to or from work & stopping to chat to clleagues in their own time. I have had the "oh theres lots of staff isnt there" said on many occasions when only one has actually been on duty and paid his meagre railway wage. British Railway workers I am certain are the most productive in Europe. Now lets turn this all on its head and ask how many observers of staff doing nothing, get to their own employment and actually do not do much themselves? I suspect a very great number of them are in a position to be "hoist by their own petard"

 

[A-driver]

Do you mean like those office workers who spend most of their time on Facebook and personal emails and text messages sorting out Friday night? And then going out for a fag break each hour or visits to the coffee machine etc?

 

[The Planner]

It was cancelled at Severn Tunnel Jn due to flooding between Patchway and Pilning, 2 trains were fully cancelled, 10 part cancelled and caused 1274 minutes of delay. So your train obviously sank...

 

[Skymonster]

Now lets turn this all on its head and ask how many observers of staff doing nothing, get to their own employment and actually do not do much themselves? I suspect a very great number of them are in a position to be "hoist by their own petard"

I'm sure many people have down-time during their work periods... Most, if not all. But I was taught very early on that you don't let your paying customers see it - if you're going to have some down-time, do it behind closed doors. Too often I've seen barrier staff at my local station chatting to each other whilst customers wait for assistance... Yes, it MIGHT be work talk, but professional standards suggest they should at least be making eye contact with their customers and acknowledging them during the conversation, rather than just glibly ignoring the customers I presume they are there to assist as they regularly seem to do.

 

[83G/84D]

Sounds like a plot to turn public opinion even further against railway staff :roll:

This of course fits in with government policy

Well said!
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There is a lot of money wasted in the rail industry. Frontline staff are anything but a waste of money, and yet they are the first in line for the axe when cuts are announced.

The reason frontline staff get picked on in this way is because they are easier to get rid of than the lawyers and red tape which plague our fragmented rail industry. Until we have some politicians with some real guts to fix the real problem, the situation will only continue in the same old way.

Another good post!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Usually I don't mind working Sundays, however it is the only day of the week we can decide not to work, its not as if we get double time or anything to work them (we get time + 1/4) so to a lot of people it isn't worth it. and they would rather spend time with their families or do a pursuit that they are interested in.

Erm, not sure that is correct,don't you get things called rest days?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Well said!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Another good post!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Erm, not sure that is correct,don't you get things called rest days?

Ermmm Kids go to School, missus works, I want to spend time with my family, Rest days during the week are no good when you have a family so maybe I should have worded it to only day off I can spend with my family if you are feeling Pedantic :roll:

And on a side note the majority of us tend to work rest days, due to the fact that almost every TOC is short staffed and without RDW so many services would be cancelled it would make most passengers days even more unpredictable to get to work than it is now. And of course overtime is overtime (that we get paid normal time BTW)

 

[Tracky]

When disruption hits as it did earlier this week customers depend on frontline, customer facing staff who on an ordinary day might not have all that much to do. The customers who use unmanned routes are on their own when it comes to alternative travel, road transport, information for connections etc.

 

[pemma]

A couple of Sundays ago, I made a return journey from Mauldeth Road to East Didsbury, two stops. The ticket office was closed at Mauldeth Road, so I got on without one - guard didn't come round so got off at East Didsbury - still no ticket because their ticket office was closed too.

I find the problem is the guard often has the dilemma of trying to do a full ticket inspection but then not getting back to release the doors in time and delaying the train, or getting back in time but not inspecting as many tickets.

I'd like to see the driver being able to release the doors BUT maintaining the guard on board and a focus towards using on board ticket inspections and not phasing them out and putting in barriers at stations. Letting the driver release the doors prevents the above problem and the guard is better placed to know if someone is lying about where they got on than a platform inspector at the destination station. The guard is also able to assist the driver in the event of an emergency, again the inspector at the destination station can't.

 

[bb21]

No information, nothing, the thing just nevcer arrived......how do you make a several hundred tonne train disappear off of the face of the planet?

Was there no help point? Did you use it if there was one?

 

[pemma]

Was there no help point?

Relating to help points, very few unstaffed stations in Cheshire have these. First North Western used to have an 0800 number for train running and a payphone at most if not all stations (staffed and unstaffed - left over from BR) but with Northern the 0800 number went and some stations have lost their payphones - you can't go to a payphone outside the station if you have no idea whether the train is 30 seconds away or has been cancelled.

I imagine the situation would be similar in Cumbria or Northumberland.

 

[cjohnson]

Delay attribution is a parasite within the industry.I've heard all the arguments of how they are there to help understand delay and quite frankly it's utter rubbish.It is simply a way of establishing blame and a means of fuelling the money merry-go-round that blights our railway.It does nothing to alter delays caused by the mis use of the railway such as cable theft,in fact it detracts from it, because funds that could be used to improve the situation are being channeled into employing so many people on trying to pin the blame and who is going to get the money!!.
As for understanding,the people who work in an area know exactly what has caused the delay,so understanding the problem isn't an issue,it is simply we have to blame someone before we can do anything about it and that is where delay attribution comes in.

There was a thread on this forum about a year ago regarding the "Delay Attribution Board" who rule on areas of (duh) delay attribution (usually whether an incident is NR's fault or the TOC's).

Gems from their decision reports include

• "London Midland understands that no part of the design or operation of the rolling stock in question features plastic bags"
• "The driver had his sunglasses but he was not wearing them at the time"
• the inneundo-laden "the Driver advised his Signaller that the air-cock had "fallen off" and that there was a huge gap in the pipe work"

And the infamous 'peacock incident' which resulted in SE and NR employees making representations such as

• "It is believed that peacocks are smaller than swans or geese"
• "Pheasants do not have a clearly defined flight path"
• "If the bird had been an animal..."

As I recall some forum members were convinced the whole site was a hoax, so ridiculous were some of the matters being reported on....

 

[Flamingo]

Was there no help point? Did you use it if there was one?

Don't ask difficult questions. That was the day that the network flooded in that area, and the advice being given out by FGW on every possible media network was avoid the trains, it's all gone horrible.

Of course, to paraphrase a famous Twitter, "I forgot, we arranged for several tons of rain to be dumped on our tracks"

 

[Teaboy1]

I REALLY DO LOVE THIS SITE !!!

When I am working far far away in another country, its warming to know that back home, things are always worse than they seem. That a tiny bit of humor is always found in the trivial and the cock-a-snoot at authority (aka Monty Python / Smith&Jones) is well and truly alive-and-kicking.
The Peacock Incident is a gold plated gem IMHO and worthy of a BAFTA.
Well done all involved:-P
Tears are running down my cheeks!!

 

[AlexS]

I imagine the situation would be similar in Cumbria or Northumberland.

The Settle and Carlisle, shock horror, still has telephones that allow the general public to ring the controlling signaller direct for information/assistance in case of disruption. I was surprised to see them still there!

 

[chuckles1066]

Don't ask difficult questions. That was the day that the network flooded in that area, and the advice being given out by FGW on every possible media network was avoid the trains, it's all gone horrible.

Of course, to paraphrase a famous Twitter, "I forgot, we arranged for several tons of rain to be dumped on our tracks"

Well I did check the FGW site at 5.30 when I got up (I'm in the gym at Fitness First for 6.30 every morning hence the ridiculously early time that I'm out of bed) but there was no mention of disruption.

Maybe the problems arose after that time.

And I dispute what you're saying anyway......did the Hopwood character get any "avoid the trains, it's all gone horrible" statement cleared?

I only ask because taxes on car users rise inexorably year after year and we're told it's because we shouldn't be using our cars, we should be using public transport.

I'm not sure putting one's hands in the air and saying "you can forget the rail network if it rains heavily" is likely to go down well in Westminster.

 

[Sheepshead]

I'm sure many people have down-time during their work periods... Most, if not all. But I was taught very early on that you don't let your paying customers see it - if you're going to have some down-time, do it behind closed doors. Too often I've seen barrier staff at my local station chatting to each other whilst customers wait for assistance... Yes, it MIGHT be work talk, but professional standards suggest they should at least be making eye contact with their customers and acknowledging them during the conversation, rather than just glibly ignoring the customers I presume they are there to assist as they regularly seem to do.

Quite correct, and when a paying passenger is there they should be acknowledged and there investment in the railway through purchasing a ticket be rewarded with prompt customer service & I personally would assist anyone whether or not I were being paid at the time, as I had this great British Railways tradition instilled in me many years ago by proud railwaymen, a tradition i endeavour to pass on to new employees to this day. I of course can not speak for others, but there will always be an exception to the rule.
My original contribution to this thread was really aimed at passengers who are not interacting with staff but busily looking at the situation from a passing train window & in no position physically to expect customer service from the staff in their observations, Though i made that far from clear with the "theres plenty of staff about" comment, though those present who have made such an opening comment to me have always received good customer service. It is the passing observers on trains with no command of the facts that I think could be "hoist by their own petard"