Total shutdown at Paddington from 1600 on 6 July

[Mintona]

No, the first train has just left Paddington at 2045. First HST service since 1545. I believe a HEX left at 2040 too.

EDIT: the 1549 HST did depart too, but only got to Reading a few minutes ahead of the 2045.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Exactly, I keep bringing this up on Twitter but normally get the 'I PAY THEM SO ITS THIER FAULT' bollox....

That is how the contracts work.
GWR will be the ones paying out compensation (to the passengers).

What's embarrassing for NR is that all this is brand new signalling (they can't blame BR(W) for losing the cables any more).
And it is all due to change again when ETCS is installed on the route.
It's taken more or less a decade for the WCML to get something like stability after its WCRM upheaval, so there's a way to go on GW yet.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

That is how the contracts work.
GWR will be the ones paying out compensation (to the passengers).

What's embarrassing for NR is that all this is brand new signalling (they can't blame BR(W) for losing the cables any more).
And it is all due to change again when ETCS is installed on the route.
It's taken more or less a decade for the WCML to get something like stability after its WCRM upheaval, so there's a way to go on GW yet.

Is it track circuits or axle counters used for train detection in that general area?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Why should the pax care? Pax pay GWR money, GWR fail to deliver advertised service, pax have a right to be cross with GWR.

They should certainly not have to care about the intricate Wallace and Gromit money-go-round that operates our railway behind the scenes.

Hardly that complex. GWR run the trains. NR run the track and signals.

People wouldn't blame National Express if their coach ran late because the M1 was closed. People wouldn't blame British Airways if an airport was closed because of a fault on the runway. People understand those things are different, but can't (or don't bother to) understand the railways.

Yes GWR is responsible for getting everyone to their destination, but sorting out alternative transport for a rush-hour load of people at a moment's notice is impossible (shockingly, even for a nationalised railway).

 

[Parallel]

That is how the contracts work.
GWR will be the ones paying out compensation (to the passengers)

As GWR aren't part of 'Delay Repay' and have their own compensation for delays', I thought that their policy only compensated if the delay is within their control (excluding abandoned journeys), so would they compensate for signalling problems?

 

[bb21]

As GWR aren't part of 'Delay Repay' and have their own compensation for delays', I thought that their policy only compensated if the delay is within their control (excluding abandoned journeys), so would they compensate for signalling problems?

*the railway industry's control*

 

[bb21]

Amazing how we have had privatised system for 20 years, yet the TOCs still get the blame for Network Rail issues...

Like it or not, the TOCs are the customer-facing entities, so will get the blame with most people.

Not everyone understands the ins and outs of the privatised railway industry.

 

[Parallel]

*the railway industry's control*

Ah, thanks!

 

[WelshBluebird]

People wouldn't blame National Express if their coach ran late because the M1 was closed. People wouldn't blame British Airways if an airport was closed because of a fault on the runway. People understand those things are different, but can't (or don't bother to) understand the railways.

I am not sure that is the case tbh! You are probably right with National Express just because more people have had personal experiences of their car journeys being delayed for the same things. With airports though I think people do blame the airline.

And if you want to through around comparisons, shops are responsible for dealing with customers if there are issues there and will often get the blame (have a look how many people blame EE for example when their Samsung phone breaks!).

As GWR aren't part of 'Delay Repay' and have their own compensation for delays', I thought that their policy only compensated if the delay is within their control (excluding abandoned journeys), so would they compensate for signalling problems?

I believe it is more about if it is something in the control of the "railways" in general. So signalling issues would be covered for example, but cancellations because of bad weather would not be.

 

[bb21]

but cancellations because of bad weather would not be.

Hohoho, can of worms.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Hohoho, can of worms.

If you read the terms literally, i don't think it would be covered

But of course there is nothing to stop GWR from being more generous than their terms, so they often will pay out when it comes to things that strictly they don't have to (I've had them pay for a taxi for me after a delay causes me to miss the last bus of the evening!).

Then of course you get grey areas where the weather wasn't the direct cause, but led to the ToC / network rail making specific decisions which then cancelled services! I agree it can get turn into a bit of a nightmare, which is why delay repay is the best way to go, in theory there is no argument then (though no doubt there would be in some cases!).

 

[bb21]

Delay compensation is just a by-product. The argument over whether the bad weather was beyond the design capabilities of the infrastructure is always fun.

When the latter is agreed, there is no grey area over compensation payments to passengers, whichever scheme you use.

 

[Andyh82]

Like it or not, the TOCs are the customer-facing entities, so will get the blame with most people.

Not everyone understands the ins and outs of the privatised railway industry.

I understand this, but its the fact people think stripping them of the franchise would be a good outcome.

GWR/FGW hasn't ever really been a popular operator in the Thames Valley.

Is any TOC popular?

Whenever one loses the franchise, people celebrate as the outgoing one 'deserves it' and hopefully the new one 'can't be any worse'

The same infrastructure problems, fare rises, overcrowding etc will happen whoever is in charge.

 

[bb21]

I understand this, but its the fact people think stripping them of the franchise would be a good outcome.

These people can hardly be taken seriously.

 

[bb21]

Is any TOC popular?

Whenever one loses the franchise, people celebrate as the outgoing one 'deserves it' and hopefully the new one 'can't be any worse'

The same infrastructure problems, fare rises, overcrowding etc will happen whoever is in charge.

... and inevitably after a short honeymoon period, people start feeling rosy about the previous operator. (OK, maybe not Connex.)

 

[F Great Eastern]

... and inevitably after a short honeymoon period, people start feeling rosy about the previous operator. (OK, maybe not Connex.)

Like FCC and Thameslink?

 

[lordbusiness]

Believe me, a nationalised railway would be MUCH worse!

Anyway, thoughts to those stuck in the mire...... Passengers and railway staff alike.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like it or not, the TOCs are the customer-facing entities, so will get the blame with most people.

Not everyone understands the ins and outs of the privatised railway industry.

There are a lot of very long-term commuters living in Reading who think it's still British Rail. Even so, I think a lot of people do still see "the railway" as one thing. Even if they don't, there is also the view that NR is GWR's subcontractor and not therefore their problem - if their telly breaks most likely they take it back to Dixons, or whatever. Going back to Sony isn't their problem.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On 10th April I was at Acton Main Line when everything started coming through on the relief lines and there was a down visible HST at a standstill just beyond the station.

I discovered later that the cause was the fast lines both going out of use because the whole panel had blown at the signalling centre which covers Hayes; are these current issues this week the same sort of thing happening?

 

[Parallel]

Is any TOC popular?

I'm not that familiar of all TOCs but I always got the impression Chiltern, C2C, South West Trains, EMT, Virgin and Scotrail are generally well received. Obviously those who regularly commute on them may have different opinions but we're getting a bit off topic here!

 

[IanXC]

Looking at open train times a few signals now have "****" at them, does that mean that a train has been detected but the system doesn't know what the headcode is?

No. It's an exasperated signaller. Open Train Times censors certain words.

For the record, yes "****" indicates that the Track Circuit is occupied, but that there is no Train Describer data to show which train it is.

Whilst signallers might enter some unothodox text into berths from time to time, I'm far from convinced swear words would be among them!

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm not that familiar of all TOCs but I always got the impression Chiltern, C2C, South West Trains, EMT, Virgin and Scotrail are generally well received. Obviously those who regularly commute on them may have different opinions but we're getting a bit off topic here!

Oh I'm sure their passenger facing staff and social media teams would argue otherwise.

SWT certainly cop a lot off flak although compared to any other South London franchise, they do get less complaints.

 

[cjmillsnun]

... and inevitably after a short honeymoon period, people start feeling rosy about the previous operator. (OK, maybe not Connex.)

I think people may even start to get rose tinted views about Connex soon, given GTR's record.

 

[theironroad]

i escaped this by the skin of my teeth thurs afternoon. i caught the 1515 from pad to reading which left 1 min late, which was great as my connection was tight at reading. i had a brief look through the live trains bit of the Nat rail enq app and every train seemed to be cancelled for a couple of hours, but at least the bus to Stansted ran lol. i didnt even know there was such a bus and looks like it takes a lot longer than the tube to liv st and train,

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They generally got things up and running quicker. There were plenty of staff for handsignaller duties though.

Exactly - and all staff grades were put out to assist - anyone remember Customer Action Teams (CATS) - often off duty clerks etc who went out to stranded trains and incidents with mobile brick phones and full authority on taxi's etc.? - "deeply inefficient" though was the opinion of one failed PM.

I struggle to think of massive issues on infrastructure reliability in BR days - odd dewirements and traction flashovers , but not the level of dreadful infrastructure issues that Waterloo and Paddington have seen in the last few months.*

Certainly I never went to work with the sense of forthcoming doom that so many staff must feel at the moment.

(*one noteable one was the never to be forgotten track side fire at North Kent East Junction when all the main signal cables into London Bridge were burnt through - about 3 days worth)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The installation of a non-proven new signalling system and a new Modulex PIS on Merseyrail, neither of which ever worked properly[1], caused months of disruption in the 1990s under BR.

[1] Well, the signalling system eventually did but it was a lot of work. The PIS ended up being ripped out and replaced with a fairly early conventional 3-line LED system before it ever worked correctly.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I struggle to think of massive issues on infrastructure reliability in BR days - odd dewirements and traction flashovers , but not the level of dreadful infrastructure issues that Waterloo and Paddington have seen in the last few months.*

You obviously didn't travel on the 1980s WCML then, with the electrical system beginning to fall apart and with WCRM a decade away.
GWML had a really reliable railway then in comparison, but it all started to go downhill when Paddington was remodelled and HEx started up.

 

[A0wen]

Well, of course, BR never had signal failure nor did it have have massive disruption like this! Saint BR was far above such things!

With BR the service was so poor such failures were generally not noticeable

 

[another smith]

The installation of a non-proven new signalling system and a new Modulex PIS on Merseyrail, neither of which ever worked properly[1], caused months of disruption in the 1990s under BR.

[1] Well, the signalling system eventually did but it was a lot of work. The PIS ended up being ripped out and replaced with a fairly early conventional 3-line LED system before it ever worked correctly.

I remember this, on many occasion the level crossing barriers on Duke Street in Southport where stuck in the down position for 3 hours!

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
What's embarrassing for NR is that all this is brand new signalling (they can't blame BR(W) for losing the cables any more).
...

Anyone have any idea what the underlying problem(s) with the signalling on the GWML on Wednesday and Thursday were?