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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by sprinterguy, 11 Mar 2017.
Hope not, we need two in Velim!
UK set is meant to be coming straight from Spain.
Never mind the Class 397s. Let's get at least one Mk5a set into service, and not just a Man Picc to Man Airport one off service.
They were supposedly going to be a quick fix (quick build time). Still waiting!!
The "quick build time" thing was as much about factory capacity as it was about the mode of propulsion. Extra 802s might've been neater, but Newton Aycliffe was booked solid and both Kasado and the former Ansaldo plant in Italy weren't far off either.
You do realise that crews require training, plus the stock needs testing as it's a totally new kind of stock for the UK, right? Sheesh.
Anyway, test trains will be running soon to Scarborough (not in service).
Yes and TPE have not exactly got there act together have they!
Look at the Mk3 debacle!
Thanks to the PC brigade for that one.
Yes I do realise that and TPE should have been stronger about the short term benefits but alas.not to be.
So the TPE travelling public have to endure many more cancellations and overcrowding until these quick fix Mk5as are up and running.
It will happen but are some passengers getting driven (No pun) away.
This is not all TPEs fault as discussed elsewhere.
I'm certainly staying away from TPE as much as possible until they remember how to run trains which arrive when they're supposed to and actually reach their destination. I live in Scarborough, and it's a treat at the moment if your TPE service actually travels that far rather than getting cancelled at York or Malton. The thing is, the problems that cause cancellation (staff shortages, and delays?) are not ones that the introduction of the Mk5s will solve.
I think you should be aiming that at the team who put together the bid for FirstGroup and stated they would enter service in May 2018. It is rail "professionals" who need to understand how long things take to enter service, plan accordingly and not make ridiculous, over optimistic promises - not enthusiasts.
That's a bit of an over-simplification. If TPE had offered a taxi for wheelchair users straight away (something that they were more than capable of doing, and wouldn't have added much to the costs in the grand scheme of things) instead of making them wait an hour for no good reason, there'd have been no issue.
Northern have been getting absolute pelters over the chaotic situation since May, but TPE have snuck away largely scot-free despite displaying similar levels of incompetence.
The MK3s don't seem to be being used for crew training either (at least, not mentioned on here).
And how come Northern's 195/331 are out and about daily on some sort of tests/mileage accumulations, but not the MK5s?
From the same manufacturer.
on Mk.5s, I think they are dealing with a few issues arising from tests so far, reading between the lines of guarded comments made so far from people in the know. They intimate they should be quickly dealt with so tests and mileage accumulation can restart soon.
The Mk5 sleepers for Caledonian were months ahead of the Mk5a sets with there testing and we were going to have the Lowlander from December with the new stock but that has now been put back another 6 months after brake (parking) problems and whatever else that cropped up.
These Mk5a sets (more complex, Tech wise) seem to be having problems on the brake side, dragging brakes, WSP, whatever else. Yes this is what the testing period is all about, to iron out these problems but are we actually getting any closer to having two sets running in service from the December timetable? There not getting much mileage accumulated and "supposedly" going on test to Scarborough soon. I do hope there's some sort of reliability because if these things fail over the Pennines then there will be big problems.
Even the TPE Class 68s are not getting much running and have done very little since being built. Doing a couple of trips LE Crewe to Liverpool driver training/passing out is proving nothing, even the MK3s that were going to be used for train handling never now seem to move off Crewe LNWR.
Maybe now they've got a Mk5a set on LNWR, driver training/handling will step up a notch if the problems have been sorted. I really do hope so.
Indeed, whenever new stock lands there seems to be a heightened sense of anxiety at the hint of the slightest problem. Like everything new, it'll need robust testing to flatten out any issues before they go into service. The very last thing that TPE need is rushing the Mk5as into service only for them to fail mid-diagram and further mess up the TransPennine routes. So this might mean a delay to them entering service, but as the diagrams are likely to be for 185s then the new stock can be slotted in whenever the units and crews are ready.
Since people seem to sometimes compare the pre-entry tests to planes, worth reminding that typically a new model of plane will undergo about two years of flight testing from first flight to introduction and that the first flight test airframe- sometimes several of them- will not see passenger service once. Traditionally there's also been a series before flying tests of ground and static test airframes built. By contrast, rail typically doesn't even do prototypes these days, what we see out testing is more or less the final product
This isn't an enthusiast problem, but an industry problem.
If the industry didn't believe its own hype about introduction into service dates of new and refurbished stock we wouldn't have the timetabling meltdown.
Just about everybody is fully aware they need testing before entering service. That isn't a revelation. That, however, together with driver training and everything else should be accounted for and built into the plan. It isn't that trains don't enter passenger service as soon as they leave the factory that is the issue. It is the fact they enter service months/years late and this has a massive impact on passengers, especially on a franchise like TPE where overcrowding is endemic.
At this point we don't know for sure if they are going to be late, and if so by how long. But my point was that at the first hint of an issue, in this case dragging brakes, panic seems to set in without necessarily a) knowing exactly what the issue is and b) knowing what the manufactures & TOCs are doing to rectify it, resulting in a default position that if RailUK forums doesn't have up to date information it must be serious and therefore something to worry about.
Of course we know they are going to be late. They were supposed to have entered service in May 2018. It is now October 2018. That is late and most observers have no confidence in any being in service this year.
Sorry, I must have missed something but where was it stated they would be in service for the May timetable? The original post of this thread states they would be in service in 2018, and whilst it is probably very unlikely it is not a given as yet that at least one unit will not be in service before the year's end.
Was that poster given out as a formal press release or was it on a wall at a TPE Staff/stakeholder conference?
The only reason I ask is was May 18 ever given as a formal entry date?
Would suspect a phased entry Dec 18 to May 19 would be sensible rather than a full squadron release as it allows for gaps in training to be covered and any gremlins to be found within the unit (allowing training & standards produced on how to rectify faults).
It is an internal poster, seen on many of TPEs staff mess rooms
Was it on the assumption that no faults would be found in testing?
For what it's worth, TPE's own website says the trains are 'Coming into service from Autumn 2018' https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travelling-with-us/the-nova-fleets/nova-3 . Most punters would reasonably think of December 2018 as winter rather than autumn.
I guess it's all a bit academic really; there's mainly a lesson in expectation management here. The 9 December TT change is now just over 5 and a half weeks away - looks increasingly heroic from this point if there's still nothing accepted and crew training has yet to get underway. Agree it's best to get something reliable in service - TPE just needs to be a bit more honest, especially as the rolling stock issue is so acute. From a commercial perspective I'm sure they want the additional capacity in service as much as anyone else.
There was never a statement saying “May 2018” so unsure where people have dreamt that one up.
The official line was “Summer 2018” which then went to Autumn due to the delays in driver training on the locomotives and minor delays at Velim.
There will if the current plan stays on schedule, be at least one set in service before Christmas.
Delays are inevitable for NEW rolling stock that has never been used in the U.K. before.
All those of you thinking the Mk5A intro into service will suddenly fix all the North route issues are sadly misinformed. They will improve things yes (should be next to zero overcrowding) providing passengers use all the coaches provided to them and don’t clog up the vestibules after boarding as they do now.
As for delays etc those things will only get better from December (hopefully) with the turnaround extensions at MIA.
My experience is such that I think the five coach trains will only just about suffice, and not for long.
Not sure why anyone would say delays are inevitable on new rolling stock. Build and testing estimates in particular should be reliable and predictable. It's a science not an art.
I agree. Sadly, for the first time in my life, I've totally lost faith in the railways. To see the service ruined like it has been is very saddening. I have spoken up for the railways all my life, but it isn't possible to do so now and the service is atrocious.
New trains are always late because the people who demand the entry into service dates and those that agree to them are very rarely anything to do with the process..... It is the same in all elements of engineering!!! While they might be late, if you spoke to the people doing it originally they are probably on time!