TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[sprinterguy]

.However, CAF are only providing the coaches here, an extra set would need an extra loco from Stadler to pull it!

And no doubt once DRS have their newer locos delivered, the other converted 68s that work mixed duties could be leased to TPE on a more permanent basis.

There's already a couple more locos in the TPE pool than there are carriage rakes, including the two non-TPE branded spares.

Though as Bletcheyite notes having an extra spare set around wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea if reliability of the CAF sets failed to live up to expectations.

 

[59CosG95]

37611 delivered TP07 (11507, 12719, 12720, 12721 & 12807) from Portbury Dock to Crewe South Yard yesterday (under the headcode 5Q42).

Should just leave the following for delivery:

• TP08 (11508, 12722, 12723, 12724 & 12808);
• TP10 (11510, 12728, 12729, 12730 & 12810);
• TP12 (11512, 12734, 12735, 12736 & 12812);
• TP13 (11513, 12737, 12738, 12739 & 12813);
• spare DTSO 12814.

 

[hexagon789]

Though as Bletcheyite notes having an extra spare set around wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea if reliability of the CAF sets failed to live up to expectations.

I certainly think CAF should offer them something for the delays. Unless they can get a partial refund?

 

[BeHereNow]

I certainly think CAF should offer them something for the delays. Unless they can get a partial refund?

I don't know why people think TPE are unhappy about this delay given the amount of extra cost the new stock will bring. If anything they are incentivised to leave it as late as they can.

 

[xotGD]

I certainly think CAF should offer them something for the delays. Unless they can get a partial refund?

There should be appropriate clauses in the contract to cover this situation. Whatever it says, that is what CAF will have to do, unless they wish to dispute culpability, then it gets messy.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't know why people think TPE are unhappy about this delay given the amount of extra cost the new stock will bring. If anything they are incentivised to leave it as late as they can.

If they aren't happy about the cost why didn't they order something else?

There should be appropriate clauses in the contract to cover this situation. Whatever it says, that is what CAF will have to do, unless they wish to dispute culpability, then it gets messy.

Interesting to see what comes of it.

 

[BeHereNow]

The Nova 3s appear to be additional to the Class 185s (and don't lead to a cascade) hence the cost is additional.

 

[hexagon789]

The Nova 3s appear to be additional to the Class 185s (and don't lead to a cascade) hence the cost is additional.

Because they are retaining some 185s?

 

[dilbertphil]

Because they are retaining some 185s?

From what I've heard they will be keeping all the 185's for now.
And from being in work today there is more talk from all sides that 11 of the Mk5's are indeed going to warm storage with only 2 being introduced into service for now.

 

[DannyMich2018]

It must be very frustrating for TPE at the minute with no less than 3 new fleets in a seeming never ending training/testing process with no squadron service for any soon. For sure no 185s will be going off lease anytime soon. I remember when the CAF class 333s were introduced in 2000/2001 how speedy their entry into service was. How things have changed.

 

[sjpowermac]

From what I've heard they will be keeping all the 185's for now.
And from being in work today there is more talk from all sides that 11 of the Mk5's are indeed going to warm storage with only 2 being introduced into service for now.

Am I right in saying that the plan all along was to keep all the 185s until the point at which the South TransPennine route became a fully six-car 185 operation?

I guess having a couple of Nova 3 sets in traffic over the summer is likely to be as much as can be managed with all the crew and depot training that will need to be done.

Thank you as always for the updates

 

[samuelmorris]

Mk5As going into warm storage may be true even if the rumour about them not being used is false. If there's a staff training shortfall from all the new fleets having turned up at the same time, they may clear their fault free running but have no trained drivers to operate them for weeks / months and thus end up in storage.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Highland sleeper introduction has been delayed again (to September), with more work for CAF to get the vehicles up to spec.
That can't help any remedial work on the other CAF fleets.

 

[sjpowermac]

The Highland sleeper introduction has been delayed again (to September), with more work for CAF to get the vehicles up to spec.
That can't help any remedial work on the other CAF fleets.

TP11 out again today on Fault Free Running, so that’s just short of 1300 miles this week, out of the 2000 (I think) needed.

Fingers crossed the Mk5a stock does not actually need much (if any!) remedial work

 

[Mollman]

To answer the 185 debate, the first lot of new stock introduced, be it Mk5s or 802s, will allow other services to be strengthened to 6 car. Once all new stock is in traffic then spare 185s will start going off lease.

 

[Jamesrob637]

TPE just need to be a little mindful of how many they send off-lease. A guaranteed 6-car working can go down to 3 with a unit defect or shortage (Sheffield to Manchester Airport, I'm looking at you) - cosy but at least the majority of the pax will still get on. A 3-car which goes defective will have to be cancelled.

 

[hexagon789]

From what I've heard they will be keeping all the 185's for now.
And from being in work today there is more talk from all sides that 11 of the Mk5's are indeed going to warm storage with only 2 being introduced into service for now.

At least they have the ability to do that, they're quite lucky the 185s weren't earmarked for another operator.

It's also a real shame they aren't putting the full lot of Mk5s in traffic straightaway once available.

 

[EE Andy b1]

It's also a real shame they aren't putting the full lot of Mk5s in traffic straightaway once available.

They just can't do it because the TPE training has not been done. Way behind. Instructors first, then drivers/guards then others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They just can't do it because the TPE training has not been done. Way behind. Instructors first, then drivers/guards then others.

Is this the only reason now, not any faults with the stock?

 

[hexagon789]

They just can't do it because the TPE training has not been done. Way behind. Instructors first, then drivers/guards then others.

Hence my - "when available", after training has been completed.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Is this the only reason now, not any faults with the stock?

Probably both, as the faults and software has delayed the whole process. Having a set as a parts bin on Longsight doesn't sound too good though.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's also a real shame they aren't putting the full lot of Mk5s in traffic straightaway once available

Given the various issues that have cropped up so far, a "soft launch" is probably sensible.

 

[hexagon789]

Given the various issues that have cropped up so far, a "soft launch" is probably sensible.

Oh is that what was meant?

 

[EE Andy b1]

Hence my - "when available", after training has been completed.

Well don't know where you said that until now!

 

[hexagon789]

Well don't know where you said that until now!

Sorry. When I said "when available", I did mean that to include after all testing/training etc was completed.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Can't see these Mk5a sets being in full service now before the December timetable, weather and all.

 

[hwl]

At least they have the ability to do that, they're quite lucky the 185s weren't earmarked for another operator.

It's also a real shame they aren't putting the full lot of Mk5s in traffic straightaway once available.

Given the are taking over part of Liverpool-Norwich they will need more stock so the number of 185s leaving could be smaller, hence easier to keep 185s in service especially as the future surplus don't have anywhere else to go.

 

[hexagon789]

Given the are taking over part of Liverpool-Norwich they will need more stock so the number of 185s leaving could be smaller, hence easier to keep 185s in service especially as the future surplus don't have anywhere else to go.

So is it likely they could end up retaining all the 185s then?

 

[hwl]

So is it likely they could end up retaining all the 185s then?

That would be too many unless DfT agree to strengthen some remaining 3 cars too.

The easy option is to keep all 185 in service for the time being, First will know how reliable the 802s are from GWR so are probably betting on introducing the most reliable new stock first (802s) along with the 397s in parallel as there is pressure on the 350/4s to go.

As others have said to much for CAF to sort in a short period of time also see problems at Northern and Cally Sleeper)

 

[hexagon789]

That would be too many unless DfT agree to strengthen some remaining 3 cars to

So the DfT have given them a set number of 185s to retain?

The easy option is to keep all 185 in service for the time being, First will know how reliable the 802s are from GWR so are probably betting on introducing the most reliable new stock first (802s) along with the 397s in parallel as there is pressure on the 350/4s to go.

Yes, I think we'll see the 802s first.