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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by NewcastleOne, 20 Dec 2017.
And yet Hull will operate a HST that Transpennine could have put to good use carrying sardines.
With regards the possibility of Hull Trains getting an 802 in advance of TPE - this has already been ruled out by First Group. I believe a bunch of MP's already asked.
I'll try and find a link to the story.
1. HT never had any long-term plan to operate an HST, and the operation was only made possible by virtue of LNER using them over the ECML already. AFAIK, they aren't cleared to run from Leeds to Huddersfield, and beyond to Man Vic & Liverpool - certainly not in recent history.
2. Guards would have had to be trained to operate the Mk3 stock, and given how much of a farce the Mk3a training with the ex-Pretendolino set was, I think TPE wanted to keep them as far away from their staff as possible.
The railway isn't as simple as we'd like it to be, but that's life.
From the Hull Daily Mail:
Transpennine Express do not have a franchise commitment to introduce HSTs. They do have a franchise commitment to introduce 802s. The HSTs Hull Trains are using are former Great Western HSTs that were due to go off lease and were surpluss to requirements. The 802s currently on test were built for and are indented to be part of the Transpennine Express fleet.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
This quote peaked my interest from the MP “TransPennine Express, who are also owned by FirstGroup, are scheduled to receive 19 new Hitachi 802 bimodal trains in June but have made it clear that they only require five trains at that point. The rest are only needed by TPE for the December timetable." Why do they only need 5 trains at that point? Is it an acceptance agreement or a timetabling thing?
One thing I could see happening (which AIUI wouldn't breach franchise rules) would be Hull Trains crews doing their traction training with TPE units. Particularly if the units needed for December arrive in good time ahead of then.
Perhaps it is all they need so that all services which 802s can run are either 802s or doubled up 185s
Not sure where Emma Hardy has got her information from...
Highly unlikely that "14 trains" will be sitting around ready for use until December! TPE are focussed on relieving the capacity constraints of the network ASAP, so any 'unused' units would be put to good use either in passenger service or as training vehicles for the crews, ready for more units once they have been accepted.
There is a diagram pencilled in for may sees a unit travel down from Edinburgh to Liverpool via York as 9M05 following the Scotsman, returns to newcastle, then back to Liverpool and back to Edinburgh via York. Services at craigentinny overnight. It looks like it will be a self contained diagram for Newcastle and Liverpool crews and could be one of the first to drop a 185 in favour of an 802. Newcastle drivers are route learning ECML and craigentinny but Newcastle conductors haven't yet started. Glasgow crews already sign ECML to Newcastle but the diagram makes more sense to be a Newcastle night shift rather than have two separate Glasgow crews to work one way and pass back the other
Both, I imagine: The full timetable of Liverpool - Edinburgh services that require the 802s in service is only due to commence in December, and the lease for the 802s is only stipulated to commence on 29th August this year in the franchise agreement (Almost two years after the lease of the mark 5s was due to start).
The May timetable also has the following ECS workings:
1133 and 1536 Edinburgh to Newcastle
1629 and 1929 Newcastle to Edinburgh.
Are these likely to be for crew route/traction learning?
There is regular HST operation on the Leeds-Huddersfield-Piccadilly Transpennine Core, in the form of four-weekly runs by the Network Rail NMT. East Midlands Trains HSTs have operated to Lime St via Piccadilly and the Cheshire Lines relatively recently (2015, if not more recently than that).
Further to this, NESA confirms that 43s and Mk3s are cleared for the usual TPE Manchester-Liverpool route via Chat Moss.
The freightliner drivers who drive the Manchester airport services from Scotland might habe ECML but actual TPE drivers don't at the moment but will eventually sign to York
I stand corrected. Perhaps it's just reluctance in TPE's Management to train crews up on it - they're short on crew enough as it is with training for the existing stock.
Or that they are rightly prioritising the introduction of the new fleets - which takes a substantial amount of training - rather than distracting efforts by introducing another traction type for short-term use.
Probably, there are new Newcastle conductors in school at the moment who should be route learning soon which will free up existing conductors to start route learning, although we have just lost two conductors for driver training the depot establishment is increasing to cover Scottish work. There hasn't yet been any movement as to when conductors are starting route learning even thought the SDIs have started route training their drivers at Newcastle. York crews in what we call the Hitachi link may well also be learning Edinburgh, Liverpool crews won't be going further than Newcastle as it's too far to be out and back within a day shift.
That desperate for staff that they're having to poach children from the local secondary school?!
I notice there's, what I presume to be, training runs this week going up the ECML to Edinburgh and back with a 185:
The guard compliment is increasing?
There's a new drivers depot opening in Glasgow with 36 drivers that will drive Edinburgh to York as well
The current Glasgow guards also presently do WCML down to Manchester Airport, I'm guessing Newcastle guards will do the first ones north and last ones South, with a few daytime returns mixed in.
Glasgow (FL) drivers also presently do WCML to Carlisle and Preston, and will also do ECML to Newcastle, again mixed with Newcastle drivers heading north .
Won't be FL drivers much longer it will be TPE drivers once Glasgow depot gets fully opened and it will be down to York and not Newcastle
If that were happening then I would put myself up voluntarily.
As reported on the LNER 800s thread, ORR have given the go ahead for the cabling issue. Much action with the TPE 802s lately?
Only if resolved within 12 months.
Link to a tweet of the new train along the Humber
I have seen a HST running between Huddersfield and Leeds last month, albeit it was the flying banana. Saw it at Mirfield
Really makes you realise how short a pacer is. A 2 car isn’t much longer than one 80x carriage.
HST’s have operated in the recent past between Neville Hill and Manchester via Huddersfield, probably 5-6 years ago (or more) a Saturday morning ECS move worked to Manchester Piccadilly for cross country to operate one of the summer services to the Devon coast. I used to see it each Saturday morning passing Mirfield.