Train dispatch

[driver9000]

That video is a bit weird, why have they made a video for dispatch of LHCS at Liverpool Street only? Many of those features do not apply in other locations (eg. RA signals are not used at all locations).

The video is a training video purely for dispatch at London Liverpool Street station.

 

[AlexS]

If there is an obscured stop signal reasonably close to the station platform then a banner repeater or OFF indicator (or both I suppose) will be provided. Otherwise there is no requirement to check a signal you can't see

 

[9K43]

If you mean there are no platform starting signals whatsoever, then there is no aspect to obey and inhibit giving 2 on the bell/buzzer.

The Penistone Line/Hallam line Harrogate Line are all examples where the guard does not have a starter signal at the end of the platform.
The Penistone line has many stations on the single line down to Huddersfield. when station duties are complete, the guard gives the driver 2 on the buzzer and off we go.
I have worked many trains over this branch and never had a problem.
I have even worked Green Express charters over this route with Mk1 coaches.
We just stop with the first 3 on the platform, both coming and going, and the passengers are moved to the coaches on the platform before we get there.
Denby Dale, Shepley and Honley are typical small stations on this line.

 

[Anvil1984]

Being pedantic but we definately do on the Harrogate line, not at all stops but they are there at Leeds, Horsforth (down plat) Harrogate (both) Starbeck (Up), Knareborough (technically only the Down, but you dont go on the up unless the signals green and you have the token), Cattal (down), Hammerton, Poppleton (down) and York, theres probably more but its my day off so not thinking. A starter signal is any signal within a train length of the platform, if we SPAD off those its a SASSPAD and I'm for it too as a guard.

If theres no starting signal and not off indicator to worry about you treat it as proceed as the guard as you weren't stopped at the last one, the driver should know what the previous indication was and act accordingly

 

[Crossover]

Still on the topic of train dispatch, but from a different slant (didn't think it was worth a new thread for it), what are the rules of early dispatch of trains from stations?

The reason I ask is that after alighting the train at Stoke-on-Trent - the 1755 XC to Manchester Piccadilly - which arrived at ~1752, I could hear the buzzer sequence for door closing. I thought there was a mistake but while going through the subway, I heard the engines go and the train left. By the time I got to the booking office, the train had gone and it was only 1753! There was nothing due into the platform immediately after that could have been held up and freight doesn't generally through SOT AFAIK.

I am aware that trains can be dispatched early if the station is set down only (if the paths are available) but this one seemed odd, and I can imagine somewhat annoyed people who turned up as it was due!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Still on the topic of train dispatch, but from a different slant (didn't think it was worth a new thread for it), what are the rules of early dispatch of trains from stations?

The reason I ask is that after alighting the train at Stoke-on-Trent - the 1755 XC to Manchester Piccadilly - which arrived at ~1752, I could hear the buzzer sequence for door closing. I thought there was a mistake but while going through the subway, I heard the engines go and the train left. By the time I got to the booking office, the train had gone and it was only 1753! There was nothing due into the platform immediately after that could have been held up and freight doesn't generally through SOT AFAIK.

I am aware that trains can be dispatched early if the station is set down only (if the paths are available) but this one seemed odd, and I can imagine somewhat annoyed people who turned up as it was due!

a XC going early from Stoke...I DON'T believe you lol...j/k sounds like a misread on timing as usually the Virgin service come is 1st (usually about 5 late) then XC straight in and out then i'm waiting in the bay for my peg to clear so I can get back to Picc, we always seem to leave about 3-4 mins late lol too many trains too close together.

 

[jon0844]

I've never seen a train leave early when manually dispatched, but I suppose the staff could make a mistake.

At Finsbury Park, they always look at the platform information screens - but given the new system installed late last year saw the clocks being wrong (and different) on each individual screen, trains left at the time shown on the nearest screen - not the actual time!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I've never seen a train leave early when manually dispatched, but I suppose the staff could make a mistake.

At Finsbury Park, they always look at the platform information screens - but given the new system installed late last year saw the clocks being wrong (and different) on each individual screen, trains left at the time shown on the nearest screen - not the actual time!

at stoke the guard on the XC tends to be at the front and can,t see the clock clearly so if his watch is out by a min or two and the platform staff are not concentrating or being questioned by passengers it is easy to do

 

[Flamingo]

I've never seen a train leave early when manually dispatched, but I suppose the staff could make a mistake.

It happens !

 

[O L Leigh]

Indeed. And quite impressively early sometimes too, though there are usually extenuating circumstances.

I got to Stansted one time and the fire alarms started to sound not long after I'd arrived. The platform supervisor told me in no uncertain terms "Get down the other end and f*** off...!!!". As soon as the peg came off I was away, and more than 10 early.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

Crikey! Did that not cause chaos further up the line, or werre you held until booked time at your first stop?

 

[Zoe]

If you have a curved platform with no RA indicator and the driver to guard buzzer fails, would each member of platform staff involved in the dispatch need to wave a green flag to the next until the driver could see it or would only the guard and the last person before the driver need to wave the green flag?

 

[Mojo]

If you have a curved platform with no RA indicator and the driver to guard buzzer fails, would each member of platform staff involved in the dispatch need to wave a green flag to the next until the driver could see it or would only the guard and the last person before the driver need to wave the green flag?

It depends on who can see who. At New Street once the local door is closed the platform staff send green lights (underground station so lamps used instead of batons and flags) down the platform to the person operating the RA controls.

If a train is not fitted with a buzzer at stations with no RA then the platform staff show a green light or flag to the driver.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Surely if the drive guard buzzer fails then the train should be failed as the guard cannot communicate with the driver - for instance, he wouldn't be able to send 1 on the buzzer in case of emergency.

 

[Crossover]

a XC going early from Stoke...I DON'T believe you lol...j/k sounds like a misread on timing as usually the Virgin service come is 1st (usually about 5 late) then XC straight in and out then i'm waiting in the bay for my peg to clear so I can get back to Picc, we always seem to leave about 3-4 mins late lol too many trains too close together.

I know...I could hardly believe it either

In this case I don't think the VT services were anywhere to be seen due to the chaos at Rugby - the 323 was sat waiting to leave though hehe

 

[Anvil1984]

Surely if the drive guard buzzer fails then the train should be failed as the guard cannot communicate with the driver - for instance, he wouldn't be able to send 1 on the buzzer in case of emergency.

Cab to cab radio / passcoms and in case of emergency theres the emergency brake

 

[Tomnick]

The Guard on a typical loco-hauled train has no means of communicating with the Driver (and that's been ok forever and a day!) - but the option of dropping the brake remains. No such luck for the chap on the back of an unfitted freight .

 

[Zoe]

No such luck for the chap on the back of an unfitted freight .

But we don't even have a bell code for that type of train these days.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The Guard on a typical loco-hauled train has no means of communicating with the Driver (and that's been ok forever and a day!) - but the option of dropping the brake remains. No such luck for the chap on the back of an unfitted freight .

But the only option on a desiro is to give 1 on the buzzer - and I'm sure somewhere in the rssb rule book it says cab to cab should not be used for buzzer codes. I may be wrong though!

 

[Anvil1984]

Its not the only option though, Desiros have passenger communication devices and a emergency brake in each cab. Cab to cab radio isnt used for buzzer codes but a driver can pick up and guard can give him a verbal instruction to stop

 

[AlexS]

If you need to stop you use the big red button or similar device. Otherwise just work it with flags (which can be a bit of a pain in the arse, I'm informed, on something like a Stourbridge to Dorridge stopper!).

 

[Zoe]

If you need to stop you use the big red button or similar device. Otherwise just work it with flags (which can be a bit of a pain in the arse, I'm informed, on something like a Stourbridge to Dorridge stopper!).

How would you dispatch a Voyager from an unstaffed station if the buzer had failed though? The doors would need to be closed before you showed the green flag to the driver and there are I don't think there are any opening windows.

 

[Fred26]

How would you dispatch a Voyager from an unstaffed station if the buzer had failed though? The doors would need to be closed before you showed the green flag to the driver and there are I don't think there are any opening windows.

Bat and flag? Bat to close the doors, flag to go. The guard would keep his door as the only open door until after the green flag, same as is done on East Coast, Hull Trains and probably other TOCs.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Bat and flag? Bat to close the doors, flag to go. The guard would keep his door as the only open door until after the green flag, same as is done on East Coast, Hull Trains and probably other TOCs.

Thats the Local Instruction at Mcr's Picc & Vic

 

[Zoe]

Bat and flag? Bat to close the doors, flag to go. The guard would keep his door as the only open door until after the green flag, same as is done on East Coast, Hull Trains and probably other TOCs.

I didn't think guards were issued with bats. I didn't think the green flag would be waved until the guard's door was closed. How would the driver know that the guard's door was safely closed?

 

[Fred26]

I didn't think guards were issued with bats. I didn't think the green flag would be waved until the guard's door was closed. How would the driver know that the guard's door was safely closed?

That, a guard or driver would have to answer. I do not know.

Guards may not be issued with bats, but a hand signal would do (they don't usually use flags either).

 

[ANorthernGuard]

That, a guard or driver would have to answer. I do not know.

Guards may not be issued with bats, but a hand signal would do (they don't usually use flags either).

Guards always Carry Flags the platform staff usually have a baton, the driver can tell when all doors are shut from his brakes releasing

 

[Mojo]

Traincrew are not issued with dispatch batons as A baton is only an aid for platform staff and traincrew to assist visibility. The Rule Book module SS1 is all about train dispatch.

The station work complete signal can be given by:

• one arm raised above your head
• a dispatch bat raised above your head
• at night, a white light held steadily above your head.

I don't know what the arrangements are for a non-staffed platform, where the guard works the train, but the driver closes the doors are.

Section 8.4 covers ''Starting a train worked by a guard where the driver operates the doors'' but not what to do where there are no platform staff and the buzzer isn't working. It would be interesting to find out; presumably the station work complete signal at staffed stations is given directly to the driver with handsignal/lamp/baton/CD indicator, and the ready-to-start signal with green light/green flag/RA indicator in the same way as is given to DOO trains, but no idea about on, for example Voyagers!

I have been on a 143 where the buzzer failed; the guard closed the doors and went into the cab and stuck a green flag out of the window. Similarly, I have seen instructions where the buzzer isn't working on an HST instructions are sent out to dispatch using flags or RA indicators where provided. In both cases it's not a problem as the driver doesn't operate the doors.

 

[Fred26]

Guards always Carry Flags the platform staff usually have a baton, the driver can tell when all doors are shut from his brakes releasing

I've never seen a guard use a flag, so I wasn't sure on that. It just hasn't come up when I've been around. Though I have seen e-mails about problems with communication and that drivers, guards and platform staff should use flags.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I've never seen a guard use a flag, so I wasn't sure on that. It just hasn't come up when I've been around. Though I have seen e-mails about problems with communication and that drivers, guards and platform staff should use flags.

Yep Green n Red always in my traps