"Train driver" fined for breach of safety

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[bramling]

Can we change the title please, the person involved wasnt a train driver, he was effectively a member of the public driving a train!

To be fair, unacceptable though the Stafford incident is, I can think of a few 'liabilities' where I am.

One such driver managed to have a SPAD, reset, carry on, run through a set of points, and go the wrong way down a running line before stopping. Amazingly RAIB didn't investigate as the root cause was quickly confirmed as a SPAD thanks to CCTV. That was in RAIB's early days, perhaps nowadays they would. Needless to say the driver is no longer on the books.

 

[Domeyhead]

Surely the Directors of the company should also be fined, at the very least.

Why? Were they in the cab with him telling him to disobey the rules?

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[HilversumNS]

Can you imagine rocking up to British Airways or Virgin Atlantic with only your word that you signed 747's and knew how to get from London to New York?

Frank Abagnale did something not dissimilar.

 

[Domeyhead]

No, but it would appear that the RAIB investigation uncovered a deep seated culture of a failure to follow rules and procedures and, it would seem, taking someone's word at face value.

Can you imagine rocking up to British Airways or Virgin Atlantic with only your word that you signed 747's and knew how to get from London to New York?

This trend towards making executives accountable for every clear breach of rules by others is just a way of allowing all responsibility and accountability to slip upwards leaving everyone else to wash their hands of their actions. If I do not obey clear instructions that I have understood and accepted in writing it is my responsibility and my fault and I am responsible and accountable, as was the case here. If I am paid a lot of money for doing what is a professional job then I accept the accountability that comes with that responsibility. Drivers are responsible adults.

 

[DarloRich]

I visited that railway once in the 1980s and they really did make you feel that you were an inconvenience to them playing trains, never been back since and probably never will because there are plenty of other railways I can spend my money at.

you are missing out then - it is nothing like that today.
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This trend towards making executives accountable for every clear breach of rules by others is just a way of allowing all responsibility and accountability to slip upwards leaving everyone else to wash their hands of their actions. If I do not obey clear instructions that I have understood and accepted in writing it is my responsibility and my fault and I am responsible and accountable, as was the case here. If I am paid a lot of money for doing what is a professional job then I accept the accountability that comes with that responsibility. Drivers are responsible adults.

but it is the responsibility of "executives" to ensure that suitably robust procedures are in place to ensure you understand exactly what you are signing up to and why, what the consequences of your actions are, that you have received the correct initial training to allow you to safely discharge your duties, to manage and maintain your competencies, to ensure records are maintained and managed in relation to your profession, to ensure that safe systems are in place to provide you with the tools to undertake your job etc etc

Clearly there were systemic failings that allowed a potentially dangerous locomotive to travel on the network in the hands of an unqualified person. Whilst the driver is personally responsible for his failings the executives have questions to answer about how they allowed this to happen. You cannot transfer the entire blame to the man on the ground.

 

[455driver]

you are missing out then - it is nothing like that today.

That's as may be, there are plenty of other railways where I am made to feel very welcome so I will stick with going to them thanks.

I am up in Yorkshire in a few weeks time

 

[redbutton]

Why? Were they in the cab with him telling him to disobey the rules?

No, but an analysis of the relationship between DCR and Amtrain shows that this person was able to use his position as a senior manager of one company to certify himself as competent in his role at the other company, leading to his claimed "qualification" to drive the traction over the route.

I think it's reasonable to expect the management of DCR to bear some responsibility for their failure in vetting their subcontractor, which resulted in the endangerment of other railway users.

That, and the ORR shouldn't allow the holder of a safety certificate to subcontract their safety management duties to an outside firm, to avoid this kind of liability-shield nonsense.

 

[DarloRich]

That's as may be, there are plenty of other railways where I am made to feel very welcome so I will stick with going to them thanks.

I am up in Yorkshire in a few weeks time

that is a shame - you are missing out on a decent run out, with some proper diesels at present due to steamer shortgages

 

[najaB]

This trend towards making executives accountable for every clear breach of rules by others is just a way of allowing all responsibility and accountability to slip upwards leaving everyone else to wash their hands of their actions.

To me that is a refreshing change from 'business as usual' situation where executives escaped being held accountable or responsible for what they allowed or encouraged under their watch, and middle management or the shop floor workers ended up bearing the blame and consequences (investment bankers I'm looking at you).

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[edwin_m]

That, and the ORR shouldn't allow the holder of a safety certificate to subcontract their safety management duties to an outside firm, to avoid this kind of liability-shield nonsense.

The holder still retains ultimate responsibility - some of the role can be subcontracted as long as the Safety Management System allows it. A good example is West Coast Railways, where given their recent history the use of an external consultant in a safety management role was probably essential to allow them to resume operations.

 

[FordFocus]

Surely the Directors of the company should also be fined, at the very least.

I agree, the lack of competency on said driver(s) and responsibility on the matters should also lie further up the food chain.

 

[TDK]

The terminology of competency is "sign the route" and "sign the traction" and it is exactly that, the driver signs the competency documentation for both the route and the traction. Rules is also signed but this is monitored by management more so than the driver themselves.

If I haven't been over a route for a time and am not confident with that route I will approach management and request a route refresh and until I have had a route refresh I will not be booked to that route. It isn't solely the responsibility of the driver but if the driver has an incident over the route it is if they are not conversant with said route.

The monitoring of all SC documentation is down to the line manager.

So weighting responsibility with this case is I would say 80% driver 20% management.

Now if this driver is a manager there has to someone independent to assess them who is conversant on the route and traction you cannot assess yourself and then sign and counter sign the route card or traction documentation.

There will be 2 or 3 signatures on the COC and all are partially responsible.

 

[HH]

So weighting responsibility with this case is I would say 80% driver 20% management.

I don't disagree with what you've said, but it seems inconceivable that this is the first time this particular nincompoop has flouted the rules. And while the driver has the responsibility to sign the route/traction, management has a duty of care to its passengers (and other staff) and therefore should not be relying on that driver's word alone. I cannot for one second imagine this happening on a TOC. Ever, if they were running trains until the Earth falls into the Sun.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They shouldn't be referring to him as a Driver. He got away with this very lightly. He had no right be in the cab of that locomotive, he had no mainline qualifications, didn't sign the road and the loco was not fit to be out on the road - no DSD, NRN, defective speedometer and as I recall below standard brake blocks. Absolutely disgusting he was only fined when another driver recieved a suspended sentence for a SPAD and unregistered radio.

Would leaving a shed for the mainline with just one of them faults be enough on its own to get a driver a major bollocking?

 

[Groningen]

With no perfect brakes end up only 100 meters behind the signal; it could have been much worse. Say a train departed, crosses a switch and see a locomotive in your path.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted