"Train driver" fined for breach of safety

[TDK]

Has anyone got a link to better report and what are your opinions of a train driver being fined for this kind of safety breach? I presume this is the incident with the SPAD at Stafford in the light loco when speeding?

If this has already been covered mods please delete or lock the thread

http://orr.gov.uk/news-and-media/pr...2000-for-ignoring-safety-procedures-and-rules

A qualified train driver, Andrew McKenna, was fined £2000 by the Birmingham Magistrates Court today and ordered to pay costs of £1,581.87 for failing to follow safety rules while driving a locomotive in April 2012 on the West Coast Main Line (WCML). Mr McKenna has pleaded guilty to a prosecution brought by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) for a breach of health and safety law.

 

[trentside]

This is rather unprecedented isn't it? I'm aware of attempted prosecutions against drivers who have caused incidents through their own errors, and seem to recall that there was a successful one against an LUL driver? I don't recall someone having been fined before.

It would appear that this is the Stafford incident. I'm surprised they went so far as to use the word "Qualified" to refer to this individual, as there were a number of questions over his competency in the subsequent reports.

 

[Hornet]

Has anyone got a link to better report and what are your opinions of a train driver being fined for this kind of safety breach? I presume this is the incident with the SPAD at Stafford in the light loco when speeding?

If this has already been covered mods please delete or lock the thread

http://orr.gov.uk/news-and-media/pr...2000-for-ignoring-safety-procedures-and-rules

Clear enough report to me. He should never be allowed anywhere near a Locomotive again. Gross negligence on his behalf.

 

[snowball]

A notorious incident. The RAIB report is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/410723/130916_R162013_Stafford.pdf

 

[physics34]

these small private companies arent doing themselves any favours are they!!

 

[Carlisle]

these small private companies arent doing themselves any favours are they!!

Staff have also been jailed in the past including BR days so nothing really to do with the size of the company

 

[HH]

Staff have also been jailed in the past including BR days so nothing really to do with the size of the company

Just its competency.

NR seem to have let them back on the railway with indecent haste.

 

[driver9000]

They shouldn't be referring to him as a Driver. He got away with this very lightly. He had no right be in the cab of that locomotive, he had no mainline qualifications, didn't sign the road and the loco was not fit to be out on the road - no DSD, NRN, defective speedometer and as I recall below standard brake blocks. Absolutely disgusting he was only fined when another driver recieved a suspended sentence for a SPAD and unregistered radio.

 

[HH]

Surely the Directors of the company should also be fined, at the very least.

 

[edwin_m]

Absolutely disgusting he was only fined when another driver recieved a suspended sentence for a SPAD and unregistered radio.

The suspended sentence was more for "reset and go" after the SPAD - a deliberate action that a competent driver should have known was against the rules and downright dangerous. At Stafford the errors were in part by the company not the individual - although clouded by the fact the individual held a managerial position in the company.

I don't think we yet know if any prosecution will arise from the Wootton Bassett incident.

 

[najaB]

A notorious incident. The RAIB report is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/410723/130916_R162013_Stafford.pdf

I've gotten to paragraph 27 and already think that a fine and being banned from train driving is too light a punishment!

 

[TDK]

I've gotten to paragraph 27 and already think that a fine and being banned from train driving is too light a punishment!

After reading this report the person handling this train should never have been permitted to by the company who was responsible for the locomotive. The driver if he didn't realise the difference in speed from 55mph and 103mph is incompetent to drive any vehicle let alone a train.

This is by the looks of it a scenario where someone who's interests are obviously heritage traction and I feel it is a case of "boys with big toys" and no matter what was wrong with the loco he would have taken it anyway.

It isn't down to anyone to say what the punishment for this incident should be but if it was carried out by a qualified driver working for a "proper" railway company I am sure the consequences and outcome would have been a lot different.

The mistakes made by all parties are awful and a complete joke and in my opinion the likes of DCR should have with immediate effect been withdrawn indefinitely.

It just damages the reputation of such outfits such as WCR, DCR etc. and poses the question whether heritage stock should remain on the mainline where passenger or even booked freight services are evident as this under other circumstances and the WCR incident are precursors in the eyes of the ORR, RIAB to the risk of a serious incident occurring.

As for the fine for the driver I feel this is unwarranted however the driver in question should be banned from operating any train for life as the blatant ignoring of rules and regulations and also the excess speed is certainly damning and if this was carried out by a driver working for a TOC I am certain that the said individual would never work in a safety critical role within the NR infrastructure again.

There is only one person who knows what was happening at the time and that is the driver himself, he took a chance and was busted.

 

[Legzr1]

They shouldn't be referring to him as a Driver. He got away with this very lightly. He had no right be in the cab of that locomotive, he had no mainline qualifications, didn't sign the road and the loco was not fit to be out on the road - no DSD, NRN, defective speedometer and as I recall below standard brake blocks. Absolutely disgusting he was only fined when another driver recieved a suspended sentence for a SPAD and unregistered radio.

Agreed.

As already hinted at, the full report makes for depressing reading with the issues you've highlighted being the tip of the iceberg.

 

[LAX54]

No DSD...No NRN. No Speedo....Dodgy brakes that didn't clasp the wheels 100%.... Light Loco 100mph ! well at least the AWS worked !

 

[yorksrob]

It just damages the reputation of such outfits such as WCR, DCR etc. and poses the question whether heritage stock should remain on the mainline where passenger or even booked freight services are evident

Please don't tar all mainline heritage operations with the same brush. Some do actually use qualified drivers from 'proper' companies.

 

[FordFocus]

That fine isn't big enough. He knew of the rules he was breaking and that locomotive was a potential death trap on the railway with other traffic. No DSD, no speedo (max 20mph*), a driver that doesn't have any knowledge on the route, no NRN for emergency calls and a train with poor brakes. Without sounding like the Daily Mail it's like a inexperienced teenager on a provisional license going on a busy motorway at 100mph with a Corsa that has failed it's MOT for years and has 2 wheels not braking properly.

If that loco had hit a passenger train and there were serious injuries the ORR would be subject to a public inquiry.
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Please don't tar all mainline heritage operations with the same brush. Some do actually use qualified drivers from 'proper' companies.

That's getting increasingly frowned upon, some TOCs are considering banning the practice because of competency issues even before the Wotton Bassett incident. Issues of if you have a SPAD and not inform the TOC about it etc...

I know of 3 drivers that drive or have driven for WCR, they are very competent at their TOC job and enjoy driving WCR for something different. So they are able to keep up on their rules easily because of their TOC jobs and won't go back to BR practises that you most certainly wouldn't get away with now... IMHO the issue is with drivers that have retired and only drive once in a blue moon. With so many signalling schemes and modernisation projects on the horizon, WCR need to up their game where competency is concerned.

I have the utmost respect for senior drivers, particularly working 70+ hours a week on 15 hour shifts 'back in the day' and for helping shape the wage and T&Cs for us that we enjoy today. There are some bad apples though that believe they are truly Gods gift to the railway and above the rule book.

 

[GB]

This is rather unprecedented isn't it? I'm aware of attempted prosecutions against drivers who have caused incidents through their own errors, and seem to recall that there was a successful one against an LUL driver? I don't recall someone having been fined before.

It would appear that this is the Stafford incident. I'm surprised they went so far as to use the word "Qualified" to refer to this individual, as there were a number of questions over his competency in the subsequent reports.

I believe a southern driver was prosecuted a couple of years ago following a station over run. Something to do with poor prep and no sand IIRC.

 

[455driver]

Can we change the title please, the person involved wasnt a train driver, he was effectively a member of the public driving a train!

 

[TDK]

Please don't tar all mainline heritage operations with the same brush. Some do actually use qualified drivers from 'proper' companies.

The only drivers as far as I am concerned are those who work over a route on a day to day basis with a TOC or FOC, in this case the driver was not driving on a regular basis and there wasn't any evidence according to the report that his route knowledge was up to date or even there in the first place. Sorry Rob but incidents like these can only damage all heritage mainline running in the eyes of professional drivers like myself and others who have reacted to this incident and the incident at Wooton Bassett. The only companies that do the heritage works that I am confident about are DB and DRS as their drivers are on the job and not people who will drive a train on an ad hoc basis ensuring they can maintain their competence.

This incident is obviously a complete breach of the rules, regs and H & S of the railway. The company should have been shut down with immediate effect as so should have WCR if they cannot abide by the same competency structure as other companies running trains on the NR network.

As I said before this incident is a typical "boys with big toys" incident and to be fair heritage should in my opinion stay on preserved railways unless they can keep to the rules set out with the TOC's and FOC's
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Can we change the title please, the person involved wasnt a train driver, he was effectively a member of the public driving a train!

Indeed, how could this ever be allowed to happen?

 

[yorksrob]

The only drivers as far as I am concerned are those who work over a route on a day to day basis with a TOC or FOC, in this case the driver was not driving on a regular basis and there wasn't any evidence according to the report that his route knowledge was up to date or even there in the first place. Sorry Rob but incidents like these can only damage all heritage mainline running in the eyes of professional drivers like myself and others who have reacted to this incident and the incident at Wooton Bassett. The only companies that do the heritage works that I am confident about are DB and DRS as their drivers are on the job and not people who will drive a train on an ad hoc basis ensuring they can maintain their competence.

This incident is obviously a complete breach of the rules, regs and H & S of the railway. The company should have been shut down with immediate effect as so should have WCR if they cannot abide by the same competency structure as other companies running trains on the NR network.

As I said before this incident is a typical "boys with big toys" incident and to be fair heritage should in my opinion stay on preserved railways unless they can keep to the rules set out with the TOC's and FOC's
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed, how could this ever be allowed to happen?

My point is that many heritage operations deliberately employ drivers who are drivers day to day on the non-heritage railway, so again I say, please don't tar all heritage operations with the same brush.

 

[talltim]

If you want to experience his driving, he still does on the NYMR

 

[TDK]

My point is that many heritage operations deliberately employ drivers who are drivers day to day on the non-heritage railway, so again I say, please don't tar all heritage operations with the same brush.

I am not I have said that this incident will certainly give heritage on the main line a bad name, for me it certainly has. As previously mentioned the only professional outfits I have seen are DBS and DRS who use fully qualified active drivers. I am not saying that you don't or whoever you represent doesn't it just to a layman not look good as this incident and also the Wooton Basset incident are very serious matters with drivers isolating key safety systems.

 

[ComUtoR]

No DSD, no speedo (max 20mph*)

20 Speedometer
20.2 When in service

If the train is to be moved, you must proceed at a speed that will make sure you are keeping to all speed restrictions.

8 DSD
8.4 When in service
Competent person is provided

Proceed at the permitted speed to the location where the train can be dealt with

Other than all the other mistakes that were made. I cant find any reference to 20mph anywhere. Am I missing something or is there a different set of rules for Light Loco's. I know the report made mention of Rules for Light Loco's

Cheers in advance.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Andy McKenna's antics have been done to death on this forum and elsewhere.
He has escaped very lightly indeed. Frankly, he's lucky to have walked away alive.

I do wonder as to why a prosecution has taken so long, and as to the nature of the specific charges.
From the CPS's own website, evidence that more serious charges could have been laid:
"Section 34 Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and section 17 Railway Regulation Act 1842 - deal with any unlawful act or wilful neglect endangering public safety. Section 34 covers all potential defendants; section 17 is aimed specifically at railway employees;"

The real issue, is the lack of oversight of a start up company. Should the ORR have been in the dock alongside him?

 

[cf111]

Other than all the other mistakes that were made. I cant find any reference to 20mph anywhere. Am I missing something or is there a different set of rules for Light Loco's. I know the report made mention of Rules for Light Loco's

Cheers in advance.

Light locos are limited to 75 MPH max.

 

[TDK]

If you want to experience his driving, he still does on the NYMR

No thank you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Light locos are limited to 75 MPH max.

Unless it is a class 67
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No DSD, no speedo (max 20mph*),

No DSD, No Speedo - NO GO not even 20mph from a maintenance depot

 

[185]

No DSD, No Speedo - NO GO not even 20mph from a maintenance depot

Still go out as NFF from a Northern Rail shed.

 

[Monty]

If you want to experience his driving, he still does on the NYMR

It's beggars belief this man is still allowed anywhere near the controls of a locomotive be it on a preserved railway or the national network. Both he and DCR got off far too lightly from this incident.

 

[yorksrob]

I am not I have said that this incident will certainly give heritage on the main line a bad name, for me it certainly has. As previously mentioned the only professional outfits I have seen are DBS and DRS who use fully qualified active drivers. I am not saying that you don't or whoever you represent doesn't it just to a layman not look good as this incident and also the Wooton Basset incident are very serious matters with drivers isolating key safety systems.

Firstly, I don't run heritage trains, although I do travel on them.

Secondly, I quote "It poses the question whether heritage stock should remain on the mainline where passenger or even booked freight services are evident"

It sends out a poor message to those operators who go out of their way to follow best practice and hire active drivers to say that they should be doing something in a particular way, then when they do it, tar everyone with the same brush anyway.

 

[455driver]

If you want to experience his driving, he still does on the NYMR

I visited that railway once in the 1980s and they really did make you feel that you were an inconvenience to them playing trains, never been back since and probably never will because there are plenty of other railways I can spend my money at.