Train driver in uniform prevented from going through ticket barriers

[Deerfold]

If this kind of insanity is allowed to continue, with jobsworths giving hassle to other jobsworths, the pc brigade attempting to exert control over the uncontrollable, and the nanny state trying to wrap everyone and everything in cotton wool so no-one gets hurt, offended or has their data stolen or disclosed when it shouldn't be, society will eventually implode.
But apart from that, things are going great.

I've asked before on this forum without a satisfactory answer - Who are the PC Brigade and what are they trying to do?

Should a government not be trying to stop people being hurt and stopping their data being stolen? They seem to be fairly sensible things to be doing.

 

[broadgage]

IME the "PC brigade" lurk under various job titles in most larger industries especially those that are publicly funded.

The stated purpose of such persons is generally along the lines of "working towards an equal opportunities society or company"

This they attempt to do by outlawing various commonplace terms and , expressions lest they offend someone.
Did not the "PC brigade" of at least one TOC outlaw the announcement "this train will terminate at the next station" because they felt that terminate was a word with negative connotations.

They are close allies of the "elf an safety" who argue that once commonplace tasks are now either prohibited or permitted only with elaborate precautions.

I presume that it was them who required the wearing of hard hats for all works on or near a railway including walking along a platform where none of the customers are so equipped yet seem to survive.

 

[Flamingo]

I presume that it was them who required the wearing of hard hats for all works on or near a railway including walking along a platform where none of the customers are so equipped yet seem to survive.

I recently saw two contractors in a station. They were wearing hard hats, steel toe boots, full orange high-vis IPE trousers and jackets, and high-vis rucksacks. They were walking through the train on the platform taking water samples from the taps...

 

[Deerfold]

IME the "PC brigade" lurk under various job titles in most larger industries especially those that are publicly funded.

The stated purpose of such persons is generally along the lines of "working towards an equal opportunities society or company"

Well that seems reasonable.

This they attempt to do by outlawing various commonplace terms and , expressions lest they offend someone.

Are these often terms and expressions that are actually offensive?

Did not the "PC brigade" of at least one TOC outlaw the announcement "this train will terminate at the next station" because they felt that terminate was a word with negative connotations.

I don't know. It sounds ridiculous - and if you've any evidence it actually happened anywhere , I'll agree it was a stupid idea.

They are close allies of the "elf an safety" who argue that once commonplace tasks are now either prohibited or permitted only with elaborate precautions.

They're allies are they? Sounds an odd alliance. Assuming you mean "health and safety" - this seems to crop up as 2 things:
A very sensible things that reduces accidents at work
An excuse used by people who are not involved with health and safety who want someone to blame for daft decisions

I presume that it was them who required the wearing of hard hats for all works on or near a railway including walking along a platform where none of the customers are so equipped yet seem to survive.

Them? "Elf and Safety"? "The PC Brigade"?

Whenever I've heard about someone describing something as PC it's usually because they don't like being asked not to do something that offends other people (otherwise known as being pleasant and respecting others).

 

[NSEFAN]

What on Earth has the "PC brigade" or "elf n safety" got to do with poorly trained barrier staff?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

What on Earth has the "PC brigade" or "elf n safety" got to do with poorly trained barrier staff?

Maybe this train of thought ("PC brigade" / "elf n safety") needs shunted into its own siding?

 

[34D]

I recently saw two contractors in a station. They were wearing hard hats, steel toe boots, full orange high-vis IPE trousers and jackets, and high-vis rucksacks. They were walking through the train on the platform taking water samples from the taps...

Effective precautions against Legionella disease and similar, no doubt.

 

[najaB]

I recently saw two contractors in a station. They were wearing hard hats, steel toe boots, full orange high-vis IPE trousers and jackets, and high-vis rucksacks. They were walking through the train on the platform taking water samples from the taps...

The HSE have said many times that there is no requirement for PPE while doing non-hazardous tasks, however they agree that in some environments it makes sense to have a blanket requirement so that there's no ambiguity as to what tasks are/are not hazardous.

So, while it might be OTT to be wearing hi-vis, etc. while collecting water samples on a train, their next task might have been up on a roof, or down near the track. It would be very easy for them to think 'I'll not bother getting the high-vis, I'll only be on the track for a couple of minutes...'

 

[Flamingo]

The HSE have said many times that there is no requirement for PPE while doing non-hazardous tasks, however they agree that in some environments it makes sense to have a blanket requirement so that there's no ambiguity as to what tasks are/are not hazardous.

So, while it might be OTT to be wearing hi-vis, etc. while collecting water samples on a train, their next task might have been up on a roof, or down near the track. It would be very easy for them to think 'I'll not bother getting the high-vis, I'll only be on the track for a couple of minutes...'

Not these guys. Their sole reason for being there was to collect the samples. I asked them.

 

[LowLevel]

Staff should have their logic/smart card passes on them to operate the gates themselves, if they don't, they should at least have staff ID to show. After all, bear in mind ALL staff on duty (especially train drivers!) will be going in to non-public areas at some point during their shift so will need mandatory ID as per DfT requirements. It's often the same with NWR staff in hi-vis jackets on trains in that they are often not challenged as staff assume they are in possession of the relevant paperwork allowing them to travel.

I suspect you have completely missed the point as to why they aren't challenged. Most Network Rail staff have a company credit card or a RailOoto paper ticket.

But do you really think most guards have any intention of charging people who are effectively done out of any travel facilities by the enforced current industry structure?

I don't ask Network Rail and freight folk for their passes and papers and I'm not about to start whether they're on duty or off. I assume nothing of the sort about whether they are carrying them or not.

 

[Elecman]

I had a hard time convincing a guard to actually SELL me a ticket on a train because I was in HiViz travelling on business, good job I managed to convince them as there was the STM Gestapo on the gate line at my destination.

 

[LowLevel]

If someone wants a ticket, there's always a reason, issue it!

 

[euryalus]

This reminds me of something I read about southern Ireland during the 1920s, when it was announced that Railwaymen in uniform would be excused curfew, whereas those in civilian clothes risked being shot, beaten or arrested by the Black & Tans.

 

[GodAtum]

SWT have a passneger panel where they get free travel on SWT routes. I guess they only use an ID card?

 

[infobleep]

Effective precautions against Legionella disease and similar, no doubt.

Should passengers have such protections or are we not in contact with enough water pipes to for it to be an issue for us?

Michael Jackson use to wear a face masks as I believe he was concerned by pollution. May be their should be research into whether it would be better for people of not such good health to wear such things.

What I'm saying is that just because something might seem over the top. Perhaps it's actually the case that what is over top should be in wider use and norm.

 

[redbutton]

Should passengers have such protections or are we not in contact with enough water pipes to for it to be an issue for us?

Michael Jackson use to wear a face masks as I believe he was concerned by pollution. May be their should be research into whether it would be better for people of not such good health to wear such things.

What I'm saying is that just because something might seem over the top. Perhaps it's actually the case that what is over top should be in wider use and norm.

People in Asia wear surgical masks on public transport; there's nothing to stop any member of the public from obtaining and using as much PPE as makes them comfortable in any situation. I don't thing that has any bearing on what should be mandated in a given workplace, though.

 

[Peter Sarf]

What I have noticed is that if someone raises a safety or PC issue it is almost always enforced (or gone along with) because nobody dares to use common sense and even consider its merits or otherwise. That is what leads to the contempt for safety and PC. Additionally the rules and considerations get more and more complex to the point where people ignore it all. Somewhere in the beginning were some really important safety and PC issues.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People in Asia wear surgical masks on public transport; there's nothing to stop any member of the public from obtaining and using as much PPE as makes them comfortable in any situation. I don't thing that has any bearing on what should be mandated in a given workplace, though.

I have wondered whether they are wearing a mask out of consideration for other people OR because they are protecting themselves from other peoples infections. I know of some Asians who take anti-biotics for a common cold even though they are useless for that. Is it misguided ?.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If this kind of insanity is allowed to continue, with jobsworths giving hassle to other jobsworths, the pc brigade attempting to exert control over the uncontrollable, and the nanny state trying to wrap everyone and everything in cotton wool so no-one gets hurt, offended or has their data stolen or disclosed when it shouldn't be, society will eventually implode.
But apart from that, things are going great.

The final solution will be that no one should be out travelling in public anyway !. Mind you some people feel safer in their car because they are not sharing their space with unknown people !. I can relate to that though on some of the bus routes I use.

I usually find that a wave of the notebook works fine (tongue in cheek). Except many years ago when platform staff at Kings Cross tried to kick us off. Threatened to call the police so I said go ahead. Bluff called. That was before barriers and the fact that Oyster pre pay policy seems to be to view all incomplete journeys or overlong journeys are as fraudulent travel. Hang on a minute now I am getting all touchy.

It all depends on your perspective.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I HATE the term "jobsworth" with a passion. Usually because Im often called it while carrying out my duties CORRECTLY as trained. Because the day I dont, will be a day an accident is caused and my failure to be a "jobsworth" would result in my dismissal or worse prosecution.

To anyone who thinks staff doing their jobs correctly are jobsworth, its usually because they are doing something wrong or trying to cheat in some way (such as bunking the fare) let me ask you this, would you like it if i walked into your place of work, start telling you how to do your job and if you didnt start calling you names and throwing insults at you?

As anything else, interpretation of the rules is the sticking point. this is where problems can occur. I cant condone any passenger ignoring instructions from duty staff, or otherwise acting in a manner that puts themselves in danger and then being calling staff members a jobsworth for it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

People in Asia wear surgical masks on public transport

That isn't PPE. It's considered basic consideration over there that if you have a cold you wear a mask to reduce the chance of spreading it to others.

 

[najaB]

I HATE the term "jobsworth" with a passion. Usually because Im often called it while carrying out my duties CORRECTLY as trained. Because the day I dont, will be a day an accident is caused and my failure to be a "jobsworth" would result in my dismissal or worse prosecution.

I agree that the term is overused, usually by someone who isn't being shown any discretion when they're clearly in the wrong. It does work as a shorthand way to describe someone who refuses to deviate from procedure even though the deviation wouldn't cause any risk to safety or revenue and who never gives the passenger/customer the benefit of the doubt.

True jobsworths are very few and far between, fortunately.

 

[SPADTrap]

Mind you some people feel safer in their car because they are not sharing their space with unknown people !. I can relate to that though on some of the bus routes I use.

But they are sharing the roads with them, far worse!

 

[TheBerry]

You are NOT required to produce a docket/diagram, as you may be on an undiagrammed move. conteol should be backing you up in this instance if required but as long as you have a duty pass there shouldnt be an issue

Sorry to drag this up but an un-diagrammed move would be an exceptional circumstance for whatever reason, but the Authority to Travel card & ID would suffice for the gates.

I have seen on one occasion with an operator who had stock movements taking place, but wouldn't have had diagrams for various reasons, their staff members who were travelling had letters from their company stating they were allowed to travel on the service - this was already pre-agreed before they got on with the TOC. Any regular movement would have a diagram and any travelling to a location to meet a service would be marked PASS on your diagram.

The TOC I am with will have a diagram for all staff movements and if one doesn't exist then you don't travel. 9.5 times of out 10 you will travel on your own TOC service and not any other and I can think of only a few which require the use of another operator and that's stated in the diagram, the rest of the time you're shipped off in a Taxi!

 

[Oldschool]

Sorry to drag this up but an un-diagrammed move would be an exceptional circumstance for whatever reason,

Some operators do not use diagrams, so staff have nothing to show

Some barrier staff can be absolute muppets on this, they can even see you get out of your loco cab and still decline you exit from the station

Once upon a time railwaymen all worked together, no them and us, no putting obstructions in the way of railway colleagues getting their job done

 

[6Gman]

As somebody old enough to remember the Bradford Stadium Fire, the Herald of Free Enterprise and Piper Alpha I'm quite glad we now have a Health & Safety culture.