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Train driver mental health

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strange6

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A person was hit by a train last evening at Hag Fold on the Wigan - Manchester line and it got me wondering about what what the driver most have felt like in these circumstances. Hopefully the person hit is not too seriously injured, but it makes you think about what the poor train driver feels like this morning. I assume counselling would be provided by Northern under these circumstances if the driver wishes to choose it? Incidents like this can be absolutely devastating to drivers with some in the past, never being able to get back in the cab ever again because of the sight they have seen
 
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TGV

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I have spoken to some drivers that shake it off as an unfortunate part of the job. They obviously don't like it but accept that its happened, that they were blameless, and move on. Others are more affected and are usually offered help by their employers either directly or through a contracted service.
 

RPM

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It very much depends on the individual driver and the exact circumstances of the fatality. The initial fear is that you have done something wrong or could be open to criticism for not keeping a proper look out. It is hard not to feel this even if you really know inside you are not to blame.

I've known drivers to have a fatality and report back for duty the next day. I've also known drivers who've never driven again. It just depends. Personally I think it is common sense to take a couple of weeks off even if you feel fine because you don't know if you are going to be affected by PTSD.
 

222007

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We had a fataility at our depot back end of last year. The driver was off work for a couple of weeks then was back talking to him he said the person who killed thereself knew what they doing (i wont go into any details) there was nothing i could do other than hit the emergency break and wait for the bang. Truely horrible. There are other guys at our depot that have been there and got the t-shirt. It doesnt make it any easier god forbid if it ever happens
 

1V53

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We've had a few at our depot. The worst ones are the ones where they didn't intend to do it - other depots (but on a nearby line) had a girl mucking about on the line whose shoe got stuck, another one where an elderly gentleman was I believe walking his dog ended up injured on the line, struck by a train and ended up dying with the driver tending to him. Although there was nothing they could do, you can only imagine the impact this had on the drivers concerned. The first I believe never came back, the second did but needed a good deal of time and help to move on from it.

I have had quite gruesome descriptions of fatalities that some drivers had, which have been recounted quite candidly: the one where someone jumped off a platform at Wem into the path of a 90mph train, throwing the mass of ex person into the level crossing barriers where schoolchildren were waiting to cross, is probably the most graphic. I will spare you the rest of the story re the aftermath, but I didn't sleep the night after that story and I wasn't even there and it happened many years before the telling of it.
 
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Class2ldn

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I used to work for the ambulance service and now im a train driver so id like to think i could maybe handle it a bit better as iv seen the effects first hand but until it happens who knows!!
 

ANorthernGuard

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No one knows how they will react until it happens, having been involved with a couple (I'm a Guard not a driver btw) both Drivers have been very professional and had enough time off for themselves to get themselves back in a right frame of mind before returning.
 

Oracle

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A friend who was a Piccadilly Line driver had somone throw themselves in front of his train many years ago. In the end he left the Underground on illness grounds. I know that it affected him for yeara aftewards, and the Coroner did say that there was nothing he could have done to stop what happened.

We had a client who threw himself in front of a Pcc train at South Ken in the 1970s...he literally lost his head. He had just inherited a fortune from his estranged father and he evidently waited until he inherited before taking the ultimate in signs to his parent. I still remember it even now and I was not directly connected.
 
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A friend who was a Piccadilly Line driver had somone throw themselves in front of his train many years ago. In the end he left the Underground on illness grounds. I know that it affected him for yeara aftewards, and the Coroner did say that there was nothing he could have done to stop what happened.

We had a client who threw himself in front of a Pcc train at South Ken in the 1970s...he literally lost his head. He had just inherited a fortune from his estranged father and he evidently waited until he inherited before taking the ultimate in signs to his parent. I still remember it even now and I was not directly connected.

What are you trying to say here?
 

Pumbaa

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On the flip side, I met someone a few months back who is now a MOM. Under BR, then Railtrack, he was the previous incarnation. Dealt with hundreds of one unders, all across the NW.

One call in 2002 led him to Acton Bridge. It was his son. He took 2 days off work before returning to work, citing that it was only the grief that would keep him off work, and if he didn't return at that point then he never would.
 

brillopad

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I used to work in the sheds at Long Rock, Penzance (non rail related) and have seen a few units come in for a clean after a one under.
Therefore I also feel for the folk who have that as a job.
 

Minilad

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Never had one myself (unless you count a cow !!) but I think until it happens you cannot be sure exactly how you will react. Every suicide, or accident, is different and speaking to guys at my depot who have had one you realise that even more. One guy didn't even know it had happened.
I don't think about it happening, I think if you did you wouldn't wanna go anywhere. But I guess if I drive long enough it probably will eventually
 

strange6

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Never had one myself (unless you count a cow !!) but I think until it happens you cannot be sure exactly how you will react. Every suicide, or accident, is different and speaking to guys at my depot who have had one you realise that even more. One guy didn't even know it had happened.
I don't think about it happening, I think if you did you wouldn't wanna go anywhere. But I guess if I drive long enough it probably will eventually

nahhhhh, you have a good chance of it not happening to you. Suicides are still very rare on the network.
 

driver9000

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nahhhhh, you have a good chance of it not happening to you. Suicides are still very rare on the network.

According to a piece I read somewhere the other day there were 258 in 2010.

I was unfortunate enough to be involved in one a few years ago and I'd rather it didn't happen again.
 

TomBoyRacer

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An emotive subject for me - I've never seen a rail death but have witnessed three fatal road accidents, the first two in particular where pretty bad. It will never leave me completely. I can only speculate on what it is like for others and especially those who drive trains or other forms of transport for a living.

My uncle was a tube driver and he would tell me that some drivers coped after an accident and others weren't able to handle it. It's not their fault. Some people can cope and other's can't. He told me his own story story about hitting someone when I was about seven - it was certainly enough to put me off thoughts of trespass (the person in question survived but spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair) . The fact that trackworkers themselves are occasionally hit by trains sums up just what a dangerous world it is beyond the boundary fence.

I don't drive trains myself but I am aware that support available to Drivers is available.

But to sum it up - I don't believe there is a universal answer to the question.
 

O L Leigh

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nahhhhh, you have a good chance of it not happening to you. Suicides are still very rare on the network.

What a truly stupid thing to say. And please, don't try and dress it up as humour.

Whether or not you get involved with a fatality is totally random. One of my colleagues has been on the network so long he used to drive Deltics out of Kings Cross and he's never had one, and yet two others who joined shortly before I did have already had three each.

What XCDriver said is totally correct. Each incident is different and each person will have a different reaction. You need to be aware of the risk but there's no point getting hung up about it.

O L Leigh
 

Minilad

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What a truly stupid thing to say. And please, don't try and dress it up as humour.

Whether or not you get involved with a fatality is totally random. One of my colleagues has been on the network so long he used to drive Deltics out of Kings Cross and he's never had one, and yet two others who joined shortly before I did have already had three each.

What XCDriver said is totally correct. Each incident is different and each person will have a different reaction. You need to be aware of the risk but there's no point getting hung up about it.

O L Leigh

I have been driving for 10 years and I have never had one. Have come close a couple of times. A guy at my depot started 2 months before me has just had his 3rd. I guess that highlights the random nature of it.
 

TDK

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I've known drivers to have a fatality and report back for duty the next day. .

Drivers can report back but cannot drive for at least 3 days until the D & A tests are returned, and then they need to be observed by a mamager before returning to normal driving duties
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
nahhhhh, you have a good chance of it not happening to you. Suicides are still very rare on the network.

Every driver on avearge will have a fatality once every 10 years
 

driver9000

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But how many fatalities?

Sorry, I didn't write it clearly. According to the piece I read it was 258 fatalities resulting from trespass and suicide in 2010.

The possibility is always there in the background but random as it to if it actually happens. Like others I know drivers who have been on 30 years and never had one, yet I was involved in one quite early in my career. I also know of drivers who have had 3. There are certainly no assurances of there being a good chance of it not happening despite what the numbers say, which is little comfort to the drivers who have been there.
 

strange6

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But how many fatalities?



How many people are killed on the roads compared to the railways? Bigger chance of you killing somebody on the road yet I no of no single person who has. This is what I meant about the chances of killing somebody doing your job. How on earth saying that is stupid is beyond comprehension although I do realise some railway folk are very touchy and arrogant regarding non railway people commenting on their jobs
 

driver9000

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I've never seen any arrogance when it comes to railway folk talking about fatalities but you're right it is a touchy subject that often requires handling senstively.
 

TDK

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How was it "stupid"? 258 suicides in a year compared with how many trains run on the network every day makes it a rare event in my opinion.

Reel your neck in sunshine!

258 is enough and that is just suicides, what is the source on this and is this an average, when I worked on SR there were 7 suicides between Dec 28th and 3rd Jan one year and that was just on the southern. It happens enough for every driver to be wary of the possibility, I have been out to a few and one I remember at a crossing near Wrexham the driver never returned to duty and it affected him so much he was almost suicidal, not a suicide but a fatality with a young girl, you may say it is a rare event and you are probably correct regarding the amount of trains that are run but it is not rare enough to be taken lightly, the worse case scenarios are the accidental deaths of people crossing the tracks on foot crossings, at level crossings, falling off the platforms, Pway workers and also staff members, these are the ones that affect the staff the most. I have been driving 11 years and not had one, a driver who I used to manage had one after 7 months driving and out of 22 new drivers at the depot I managed 4 had fatalities in the first 18 months, it is unpredictable and the figure of 258 may be higher, until you can deliver the evidence I will keep open minded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
How many people are killed on the roads compared to the railways? Bigger chance of you killing somebody on the road yet I no of no single person who has. This is what I meant about the chances of killing somebody doing your job. How on earth saying that is stupid is beyond comprehension although I do realise some railway folk are very touchy and arrogant regarding non railway people commenting on their jobs

Not arrogant Strange6, just defensive I would say and until you have been involved in a railway fatality, been tested for drugs and alcohol, had to go to the inquest and meet the familys who all stare at you on occasions making you think you have murdered their dad or mum etc, you will not understand the aftermath for a driver, for a judge to say in court the only way of identifying the victim was one finger print is slightly different than hitting someone in your car.
 

driver9000

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The source I read it in was this months ASLEF journal which took it from the RSSB I believe. I'm not sure if the journal is online but mine has since been recycled.

Regarding the inquest that follows, this was the worst part of it all for me. Having to sit in a court room with the family seeing them distraught as the details were read out is not something I want to have to do again. The family wanted to meet the staff involved afterwards to talk to us about it and extend their condolences to us!
 
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Mr D River73

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I was driving a Train that was in a collision with a person who clearly wanted to end his own life in June 2005. To be honest, i wasn't all that arsed, well, not emotionally anyway. I'm not saying that it didn't frighten the bejesus out of me, because it did. The fact that the elderly gentleman was doing what he wanted to do somehow made it more acceptable to me. Had it been an accident, murder, or some selfish act by a parent with their kid/s, then i'm sure i would find that much more difficult to deal with.

The Driver is always the forgotten party in such circumstances, but that's life i'm afraid. I remember there was one chinese lady on our train, moaning because she was going to late. I could have literally dragged her down to the track side and rubbed her face into the remnants left on the front coupler!

It's important to understand that everyone deals with grief in totally different ways. Some may say that i'm hard-faced, disrespectful to the dead even, but the way i see it, nobody who deems it necessary to end their own lives in front of my train is going to ruin my career and prevent me from providing for my family. I accept that i am probably just lucky in that i can departmentalise in a rational manner. I've spoken with several Drivers who have had similar experiences, and it's certainly good to talk about it. Some have coped well, and some not so well, but at the end of the day, we deal with it in the best way that we can.

I can fully sympathise with those Drivers who have found it difficult, or who have never returned to work after a fatality. There is no specific training on the railway for dealing with such incidents, as one never knows how one is going to react until it occurs.

The one thing that i will never forget is the bang. For me, that's a mental scar i'll take to the grave with me.
 

Flywaver

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I had mine back in 2002 at Harlow Mill. I signed on at 05.55 then worked the 0610 off Bishops Stortford. Was a Stansted Express but had HT and Broxbourne on stopping pattern. Within 10 mins of driving it was all over. A man did a running jump off the platform as i was doing 80mph. It certainly woke me up.
My CSR had area lost....Luckily i had 4 other Drivers travelling Pass but they were in the back of the Train. 719-729 were my units,you dont forget those!
The details i remember were some ignorant commuters that accused me of hitting a bird as the mans coat had fluff explode everywhere. An Ambulance crew member went to me, if i were you Driver i would go sick......(Kidding Right!:roll:) later on a manager offered chain of care so we went for a delicious cooked breakfast in Bishops cafe. I was off sick for two months. Counselling helped me to deal with what was a ****e year.
I felt better after the Coroners Court as the man who committed suicide was a nutter that tried to kill his own family.
Where i am now has far less fatalities and its a longer route.But never say never. We had two since November. Addenbrookes Hospital is being built up closer to the railway at Cambridge so no doubt thats going to get worse...
 

GB

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Is it a mandatory requirement that the driver concerned HAS to be at the inquest in person?

If it is then I am very suprised as A) I don't believe that is the same for road deaths and B) I can easily see how drivers can consider this the worst part.

The actual event Im sure is hard enough, but after a while I imagine you can put some kind of distance between you and it (clearly you never forget) but then to have it all dragged up some weeks or months later and see the heartache on the family members....no thanks!!
 

pendolino

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Is it a mandatory requirement that the driver concerned HAS to be at the inquest in person?

If it is then I am very suprised as A) I don't believe that is the same for road deaths and B) I can easily see how drivers can consider this the worst part.

AFAIK it's not any more - the driver can make a statement which is presented to the coroner instead.
 

Rugd1022

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I wasn't going to post anything in this thread but since other drivers have done so, I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I had a fatality back in October 2009, in a way it feels as though it happened a long time ago but it's not something I'll ever be able to forget. It's made me very weary of driving through certain places, a feeling which will probably never go away. After the incident, for a whole year the family of the young lad involved placed fresh flowers on the platform where he died, and everytime I passed through on a particular job I'd see them tied to the lamp post, which certainly brought a lump to my throat. When the BTP Officers came to my house to take a statement, one of the first things they told me was that the lad's parents had asked them if I was alright, astonishing really when you think what they must be going through. I'll be passing through that same station tonight and later in the week, and my thoughts will be with the family. I count myself lucky that I've only had the one incident, I know another driver who's had four in the space of two years, and he still has trouble dealing with it.

Strange6 - a word in your shell like if I may.... please don't use the word 'arrogant' when talking about a subject like this, whether you meant it to be or not, it came across as very crass, stupid and flippant. Please, please, engage your brain before allowing your fingers anywhere near your keyboard... :roll:
 

strange6

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Strange6 - a word in your shell like if I may.... please don't use the word 'arrogant' when talking about a subject like this, whether you meant it to be or not, it came across as very crass, stupid and flippant. Please, please, engage your brain before allowing your fingers anywhere near your keyboard... :roll:[/QUOTE]

What on earth are you going on about?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not arrogant Strange6, just defensive I would say and until you have been involved in a railway fatality, been tested for drugs and alcohol, had to go to the inquest and meet the familys who all stare at you on occasions making you think you have murdered their dad or mum etc, you will not understand the aftermath for a driver, for a judge to say in court the only way of identifying the victim was one finger print is slightly different than hitting someone in your car.[/QUOTE]


So there is a difference between killing somebody by a car and a train is there? Are you not tested for drugs and alcohol if you kill somebody on the road? Do you not have to attend an inquest or court if you kill somebody on the road? Do people not get serious, horrible injuries if you kill them on the road? Are drivers not affected mentally if they kill somebody on the road?
Some of you think you're an extra special case because you work on the railways; as though you're better than everybody else. I have not written anything derogatory or insensitive in this thread to justify some of the silly little comments thrown at me. How do you know I haven't seriously injured or killed somebody on the road through no fault of my own?
God, some of you have the nerve to criticise what I have written when you should be looking at some of the silly comments you yourselves have written.
 
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