Train drivers...your uniform!

[Juniper Driver]

So how do Tube drivers and SWT drivers manage to cope?

A lot of the time I get pleasant interactions with passengers which is nice.

Not so good if I can't answer the question though.Of course I try to do the best I can but I am not always at my best.

Also when fault finding passengers can be unhelpful but I suppose that's only natural but it does make the fault finding at the time take longer.IE when I had the problem with the 6 car 159 a few years back and had to go to the middle.I had passengers chasing me through the train asking me how long it would take to fix.So I said between ten minutes and two hours.....Luckily it was only ten minutes.

I take it that this question may be based more on uniforms though?

....And some of them should be banned from wearing shorts in the protection of some sort of public decency ..I'm not the fittest guy, but some guys in shorts when it's minus 2 degrees or drivers who are very overweight/obese really don't look nice, but hey,they probably drive better than me lol

I sometimes have a little dig...ie...you been shaving your legs again and do you use Immac? but apart from that it doesn't bother me.I used to wear shorts years back but no longer do.

 

[binkyb]

Just wanted to think those of you who took the time to respond with helpful info, much appreciated. Think a few others were very quick to jump down my throat and assume I think I'm better than other grades. This is not the case. But Personally i don't believe we should all wear the same uniform. No one thinks a pilot should wear the same as cabin crew do they? However, I'd be happy to wear exactly the same so long as it wasn't comically covered in branding and otherwise impractical. There is no one item that isn't less than 65% polyester. This level of synthetic fibre isn't healthy or pleasant especially in summer. Wearing that for over ten hours a day is grim.
And for the record neither do I object to wearing a logo. I just object to having them placed in a minimum four different positions on every single separate item of clothing. Front/back/cuffs/neck/zip tags you name it they've branded it in extremely obvious large bright colours. It's completely unnecessary and when you have a five min turnaround at a terminus within a city of millions and few if any platform staff it can be a bit of a nightmare.
Nor do I object to assisting the public but the majority of questions I am asked are about tickets, journeys on other TOCs etc, a lot of the time from people who have English as a second language. I don't know the answer and it's embarrassing. There's often only those round things on walls to refer them to and no one answers. If I can get to the other end and set up without being approached that means I don't have to rush once I get there, can get away on time, won't have to fill out a report about leaving late and generally my life is easier. The company should stick their hands in their pocket and employ more visible platform staff and not expect drivers to do two jobs. If that means I have a bad attitude then so be it.
It can't be too much to expect the company to consult with its employees on the uniform they spend so many hours in a confined environment wearing? I just wanted to find out what other TOCs did and whether this would be a reasonable request. Thanks again.

 

[JaJaWa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uJhcAQmQ1I

There does appear to be some variety?

 

[axlecounter]

I'm hoping that is just badly worded, because guards and platform staff are definitely not there to be assaulted.

Yes, it is badly worded. But the point, I suppose, is clear. Platform staff is there to answer passengers' questions, even when something doesn't work as expected and said passenger is being far from polite or has -at that moment- unanswerable questions and any possible answer will make him only angrier. A driver shouldn't be facing any of this, because of lack of knowledge in that field, lack of training on such issues, etc.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes, it is badly worded. But the point, I suppose, is clear. Platform staff is there to answer passengers' questions, even when something doesn't work as expected and said passenger is being far from polite or has -at that moment- unanswerable questions and any possible answer will make him only angrier. A driver shouldn't be facing any of this, because of lack of knowledge in that field, lack of training on such issues, etc.

It has to be recognised that anyone wearing a rail uniform is likely to be asked questions by the public where the opportunity or need arises. It is to be hoped that the employees are of sufficient intelligence and have the basic social skills to be able to handle these in an appropriate way, including re-directing to other staff where necessary. This will include a number of angry people, of course. That, I'm afraid, is human nature, and employees who are, even only briefly, public-facing, must expect a range of interactions.

I believe all staff uniforms should infer a sense of identity and dignity on the wearer. Any uniform which causes the wearer to be embarrassed to be seen wearing it has failed in a basic function.

 

[neilb62]

On my TOC (VTWC) Drivers are dressed in a Grey and Black uniform so we don't stand out from the crowd and are regarded as non-customer facing staff. Oddly we seem to act like magnets only last week a customer walked past 5 of my Red-Uniformed colleagues to ask me a question I couldn't answer (ticketing, my sum knowledge of tickets is that some are made of paper!) I directed her back to them and she made me smile by saying my 'smarter' uniform made her think I was a manager! Truthfully though unless you are going to ask me something as simple as where my train stops it's unlikely I'll be able to answer.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Just wanted to think those of you who took the time to respond with helpful info, much appreciated. Think a few others were very quick to jump down my throat and assume I think I'm better than other grades. This is not the case. But Personally i don't believe we should all wear the same uniform. No one thinks a pilot should wear the same as cabin crew do they? However, I'd be happy to wear exactly the same so long as it wasn't comically covered in branding and otherwise impractical. There is no one item that isn't less than 65% polyester. This level of synthetic fibre isn't healthy or pleasant especially in summer. Wearing that for over ten hours a day is grim.
And for the record neither do I object to wearing a logo. I just object to having them placed in a minimum four different positions on every single separate item of clothing. Front/back/cuffs/neck/zip tags you name it they've branded it in extremely obvious large bright colours. It's completely unnecessary and when you have a five min turnaround at a terminus within a city of millions and few if any platform staff it can be a bit of a nightmare.
Nor do I object to assisting the public but the majority of questions I am asked are about tickets, journeys on other TOCs etc, a lot of the time from people who have English as a second language. I don't know the answer and it's embarrassing. There's often only those round things on walls to refer them to and no one answers. If I can get to the other end and set up without being approached that means I don't have to rush once I get there, can get away on time, won't have to fill out a report about leaving late and generally my life is easier. The company should stick their hands in their pocket and employ more visible platform staff and not expect drivers to do two jobs. If that means I have a bad attitude then so be it.
It can't be too much to expect the company to consult with its employees on the uniform they spend so many hours in a confined environment wearing? I just wanted to find out what other TOCs did and whether this would be a reasonable request. Thanks again.

Three jobs with DOO.

You are right.The worst thing I find is having to rush about.Not recommended.

 

[pdeaves]

Contractors wearing orange HV regularly get asked questions, too. Even when they are up a ladder changing the lights, or behind a temporary fence painting something. It's not their job to deal with the public, either, but a polite answer along the lines of 'I don't know, ask him' is all that's necessary and keeps everyone happy.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Fifteen seconds, fair enough. Experience tells me, though, that passengers needing to ask a question tend to head for the member of staff who looks like they're answering someone else's question! Suddenly you've got four or five people queuing up to ask different questions.

This, exactly! I'm not and never have been on the operations side, but I can easily see the above scenario occurring and can see it could easily become very frustrating for any driver caught up in it.

On top of this, even if there is no rush on, I can well imagine a driver might want to think about the next job - what TSRs might be on, or how to approach a junction or station or signal in a different way, or whatever. So, he or she may appear to be just sauntering towards the cab with no care in the world when in fact, they are concentrating on an issue. (I know I do this in my work - I may be making a cup of tea, but still pondering how to tackle a job, and I sometimes bark at the wife if she interrupts the thought pattern.)

On the subject of consultation - I remember Michael O'leary commenting, proud as punch last year, about how staff had designed the new Ryanair uniforms in what sounded a like an 'in-depth' consultation process, including some sort of vote, IIRC. He used a Dublin-based taylor/outfitter too, and made the whole thing seem like a team effort.

I think some of the criticism of the OP on this thread is unfair and unwarranted. Yes, of course a driver may get asked questions, but that is not the primary job and some clearly don't like it, especially when on the end of moans that they can do nothing about. Not everyone is a natural PR agent, and a dirver's first job is to drive trains safely and whenever possible to time. If he or she has the knowledge/aptitude to discuss the validity of tickets between Sunderland and Wolverhampton, fine - but if not, that should also be fine.

 

[rebmcr]

Not everyone is a natural PR agent, and a driver's first job is to drive trains safely and whenever possible to time. If he or she has the knowledge/aptitude to discuss the validity of tickets between Sunderland and Wolverhampton, fine - but if not, that should also be fine.

Very true!

 

[Deepgreen]

Very true!

They don't have to be PR agents - just have the reasonable temperament and intelligence (both qualities I would want to see in a train driver in any case) to either answer or re-direct occasional queries.

All the drivers I have encountered have been more that able to do this perfectly well.

 

[bengley]

I don't wear uniform. I was issued with uniform 6 months after joining and after chasing it up for 6 months, none of it fitted and sending it back was a hassle. (I'm not the only person at my depot or TOC who doesn't wear uniform - some still wear the uniform from the previous franchisee and even the one before that!)

For that reason I went out and bought clothes which look similar to the uniform but are more flattering and fit perfectly. The only issued uniform I wear is the polo shirt.

Being asked questions as a driver is not ideal - we often have very short turnarounds and when walking the length of a 12 car at a busy station you will be asked asked several questions if you look too conspicuous. That said, if someone does ask me a question I am more than happy to answer it and like to think I normally know the correct answer.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I used to work in a Control centre and I've literally never heard of a train being delayed because the driver was mobbed by passengers as he was changing ends, like the guy in the Lynx adverts.

I had the 'wear your hi-vi at all times' instruction rescinded via the cctv evidence at Baker Street on just that point. A C & H shutdown meant turning short at Baker Street pfm 1. The hi-vi drew continual questions from passengers off the train I had just tipped out causing a six minute delay in it getting back North and freeing the platform for other trains to get in. There are definitely occasions where it is in the overall good of the service if drivers are low key in appearance and allowed to proceed with their main task in hand (i.e. keeping the job moving). The hi-vi is designed to draw attention and on a standard platform situation it is station staff who should field the questions from passengers.

 

[321446]

My Greatly Angrier uniform doesn't have any logos (I wear the suit jacket viz the Harrington). But I like to think it's my natural air of competence and savoir-fare which draws people to me. Don't mind it on the platform during disruption, as generally I'm as confused as they are and I appreciate their position...mostly. However, when shopping before or after work, I do frequently get asked where the chopped onions or power-drills are, depending on my shop of choice.

TfL are logo'd to the eyeballs and I do feel for them. For some of them, and us, it's just a uniform and we just get on with it, others make concerted efforts to not look conspicuous. Very difficult in TfL land with logos front, back, side and at each extremity.

 

[the sniper]

There's a driver I know who used to wear a smart tailored suit and nice shoes every day instead of the official uniform because that was rubbish. A higher up manager came in one day and complimented him alone on how smart he looked and commended him for the image he presented. This driver was the only person in the mess room at the time not wearing any official uniform or safety shoes... :roll:

Luckily the uniform policy is almost completely unenforced, so it's always interesting to see what interpretation people sport. Numerous older hands still wear various bits of BR uniform and quality 10+ year old jumpers/fleeces from the predecessor TOC. It can be a more authentic heritage experience than most preserved railways offer!

 

[driver_m]

Very true that sniper. I was in last week and one of the drivers at ours walked in wearing a BR thin jacket. Looked in better condition than my current uniform. Never mind a standard paint job for the trains, a standard uniform for us all that was decent wouldnt go amiss!

 

[Johncleesefan]

At my toc we have 2 types of driver uniform mart and casual.

The smart is suit get up which most other grades wear.
the casual is only offered to drivers and is discreet and more comfortable to the role.

Having worn both its safe to say I find a lot more passengers approaching me in the suit and as mentioned I don't very often have the answer to their questions so redirect them.
I tend to wear the casual a lot more for practicality and so a don't stand out.

I have no issue with customer service but someone else more informed is better being their first port of call

 

[BestWestern]

Consider also what can happen during a disruption. Someone in a uniform can literally get assaulted by passengers looking for answers. Guards or platform staff are there for this, a driver is not.

What a silly comment.

The suggestion that Drivers are some sort of superior being who aren't expected to have to communicate with the peasants is not a reflection of the reality of modern day TOCs. Whilst it's true they might not be expected to have the same level of knowledge of the intricate stuff like connections and the like, the idea that they don't form part of the customer facing workforce is no longer true, even if it might have been the case a few years ago. Driving staff are there to serve the fare paying public every bit as much as their colleagues in other grades, and they'll generally be expected to wear the company uniform properly.

At our shack, Drivers have a more 'relaxed' uniform, which reflects the need to be out and about on shed turns etc, and the inability to escape hot cabs etc on summer days. But it's still a uniform and they still need to have it on! Interestingly, a good few of them choose the smarter version and would rather wear a shirt and tie.

 

[321446]

If I "have" to wear a shirt and tie, I hate it. Really do. Harks back to my previous life as a Snivelling Serpent. But I do like the smarter uniform, generally worn by our RPIs, and I have therefore chosen to wear it. I like to think it puts me in the right frame of mind and adds a little class and decorum to proceedings. Well, until I put it on. I'm no mannequin, but I have no idea who my uniform was cut to fit, but it wasn't me.

 

[313103]

Consider also what can happen during a disruption. Someone in a uniform can literally get assaulted by passengers looking for answers. Guards or platform staff are there for this, a driver is not.

Suck it up buttercup, when the tocs have got rid of the guards and the station staff guess who is the customer service representative for the company?

The one thing that gets me other then that attitude shown by axlecounter is that drivers think they have divine right to wear what they want, whilst lecturing others about the state of their dress.

At my last company the drivers sought to get the colour of the shirt changed from grey to white as the drivers reps said they want the drivers to look different, the company agreed to change the shirts to white, but the company also decided that all staff would change to white shirts.

 

[ComUtoR]

The one thing that gets me other then that attitude shown by axlecounter is that drivers think they have divine right to wear what they want, whilst lecturing others about the state of their dress.

Its because we're awesome.

 

[dk1]

Its because we're awesome.

I like that

 

[HowardGWR]

My Greatly Angrier uniform doesn't have any logos (I wear the suit jacket viz the Harrington). But I like to think it's my natural air of competence and savoir-fare which draws people to me. Don't mind it on the platform during disruption, as generally I'm as confused as they are and I appreciate their position...mostly. However, when shopping before or after work, I do frequently get asked where the chopped onions or power-drills are, depending on my shop of choice.

TfL are logo'd to the eyeballs and I do feel for them. For some of them, and us, it's just a uniform and we just get on with it, others make concerted efforts to not look conspicuous. Very difficult in TfL land with logos front, back, side and at each extremity.

See bold. No wonder they think you know the price of a ticket.

 

[Latecomer]

I strongly suspect the OP is talking about what is effectively a TfL rebranding. The logo's are absolutely everywhere and very hard to disguise if traveling by public transport to or from work - indeed you would need inside knowledge to determine that you aren't in fact an underground member of staff. Coats can cover up stuff in winter but summer is a different matter.

Many respondents have unfortunately equated the questions posed as some kind of poor attitude towards members of the public. I don't equate the two. Turnaround times are constantly under pressure and in DOO land you are the only person. 30 seconds is not insignificant when we are constantly told every second counts. As others have said at times of disruption drivers are generally the last person you want getting held up - it is becoming more and more common. Personally if i have 8 minutes I am very happy to give someone a minute of my time, 5 minutes and I am either giving a very concise but polite answer or referring them elsewhere. We need to look inconspicuous enough to be able to carry out our core duties, but not so overtly obvious as to be a magnet. If I am correct in my assumption about who the OP works for then the proposed uniform literally draws a line towards a target (aka roundel) on your chest! Happy to look smart, professional and identifiable close up, in any other situation if I need to command attention in an emergency then the hi vis goes on, or people will just know by how i conduct myself and with the knowledge I impart. I think all the OP's comments were reasonable. Nothing was said to suggest that they have a derogatory view regarding the responsibilities they have towards the public. Indeed, the issues of fatigue and the continual pressure of performance lead me to think it is sensible for drivers to be able to get to work and back without feeling 'on duty' and also to a have a level of visibility that is different from customer facing staff when in the station environment.

 

[bramling]

Suck it up buttercup, when the tocs have got rid of the guards and the station staff guess who is the customer service representative for the company?

The one thing that gets me other then that attitude shown by axlecounter is that drivers think they have divine right to wear what they want, whilst lecturing others about the state of their dress.

At my last company the drivers sought to get the colour of the shirt changed from grey to white as the drivers reps said they want the drivers to look different, the company agreed to change the shirts to white, but the company also decided that all staff would change to white shirts.

There is definitely a case for drivers to have a uniform that has subtle differences from the TOC's standard uniform as it enables train staff to be promptly identified by staff during an incident. I cannot understate how important this is.

Regarding customer service, again it is undesirable for drivers to be getting hassled by passengers for general enquiries. It's fine when the driver has plenty of time, but not fine when things are tight. Take the Underground- on some lines turnarounds are as little as 4 minutes. This is barely enough to change ends and prepare the new cab, and leaves seconds even for something as simple as a quick leak. Start taking questions and the train WILL be late. From a passenger point of view I don't want the train to be delayed because of that. It's also increasingly difficult to deal with enquiries quickly as, especially in London, increasing numbers of people have poor grasp of English.

 

[BestWestern]

Regarding customer service, again it is undesirable for drivers to be getting hassled by passengers for general enquiries. It's fine when the driver has plenty of time, but not fine when things are tight. Take the Underground- on some lines turnarounds are as little as 4 minutes. This is barely enough to change ends and prepare the new cab, and leaves seconds even for something as simple as a quick leak. Start taking questions and the train WILL be late. From a passenger point of view I don't want the train to be delayed because of that. It's also increasingly difficult to deal with enquiries quickly as, especially in London, increasing numbers of people have poor grasp of English.

The problem, unfortunately, is that the railway is destaffing. Increasingly, Drivers may very well be one of the few frontline staff grades who are actually visible to passengers, and available to answer questions. No amount of automated information will replace many passengers' desire to speak to somebody in person - indeed, there is in my view an argument that the more automated info you provide, the more uncertainty is placed in the heads of the user. Drivers and their employers are going to have to accept that the job is unavoidably going to encompass elements of other roles being done away with, and adapt to be able to deal with that.

 

[dk1]

The problem, unfortunately, is that the railway is destaffing. Increasingly, Drivers may very well be one of the few frontline staff grades who are actually visible to passengers, and available to answer questions. No amount of automated information will replace many passengers' desire to speak to somebody in person - indeed, there is in my view an argument that the more automated info you provide, the more uncertainty is placed in the heads of the user. Drivers and their employers are going to have to accept that the job is unavoidably going to encompass elements of other roles being done away with, and adapt to be able to deal with that.

That ain't going to happen & if anything there seem to be more frontline staff these days with a far more visible presence. If I am PNB or finishing duty, there is no way in this world I would stand around answering questions as I leave my train. I make for the quickest exit & would end up putting a jacket over my uniform. Just call me Bolt.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Whilst not being the most attractive of uniforms, my current GTR/Southern one is by far the most comfortable I've been issued in 13 years with the firm. It's the same as GN's and TL's, just with different logos. I suppose it makes it easier for the company when/if staff move between brands.

I like the idea of being able to zip the soft shell Keela jacket into the shower-proof one to make a nice warm winter jacket with high collar. The original long sleeve sweaters I found wore down into holes quite quickly on the elbow, the the later thicker ones are much more hard wearing. I have no issues with the tank tops and the shirts/trousers are proving quite hard wearing with constant washing. I can't remember if driver's got the Harrington jackets like with the previous uniform. Those made identifying drivers that bit easier as they're a considerably different design.

I wouldn't say the logos on it are over the top. It's what you'd expect from a uniform. It is an embroidered logo rather than a transfer which has obvious appearance benefits.

The uniforms undergo 'wearer trials' where a selection of staff from across all grades are asked to trial the uniform prior to general release and any issues can be sorted out during that time. Feedback is generally well received by the suppliers and acted upon if practical.

 

[axlecounter]

That ain't going to happen & if anything there seem to be more frontline staff these days with a far more visible presence. If I am PNB or finishing duty, there is no way in this world I would stand around answering questions as I leave my train. I make for the quickest exit & would end up putting a jacket over my uniform. Just call me Bolt.

This must be an international standard, because it is very well applied here too!

By the way, here, where DOO is the norm, most people have now accepted that no customer service staff is around and informations need to be found in other ways (not that I like this method)...
On the other hand, on mid-to-big stations customer-service staff is being (re)introduced, especially during disruptions or when more passengers than usual are expected.

And as for myself, since my first comment made some draw conclusions about my behaviour: when asked I'm more than happy to answer or to search for an answer. I'd even like to be asked more, because I'm sure I could help more people. But all this is true as long as I have the time to do it.

An example: an old lady knocks at my door and asks -after a long preamble, of course- if there's going to be a connection with this train at that station. But we are already late. I might be kind and helpful, listen to all she has to say and give a good answer...and lose the connection. Or be slightly rude, speed things up and arrive on time.

 

[70014IronDuke]

What a silly comment.

Why so? Are you saying it never happens? Obviously this can be taken as a 'worst case scenario' -but if I compare the posting of the OP and your response, I know which I would consider the 'sillier' statement.

The suggestion that Drivers are some sort of superior being who aren't expected to have to communicate with the peasants is not a reflection of the reality of modern day TOCs.

I do not believe there was any such hint of 'superiority'. Why bring this into it?

It merely comes down to priorities. If time is tight, does a driver stop to answer even one passenger's enquiry - knowing, from experience that it can lead to five more passengers appearing, each with a different query - all of which may lead to further delays .... or does he/she shift asap to the driving cab and get the train ready to depart?

I think the answer should be pretty obvious to all but the most self-centred passenger.