Train leaves conductor on platform, passengers locked on train

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Eric

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NORTHERN Rail faced ridicule this morning after a train driver pulled out of a station leaving the conductor behind on the platform.

The fiasco, described by the company as an “operating incident”, left passengers locked in carriages while a taxi was summoned to pick up the guard.

Read more at: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....rain-driver-leaves-conductor-behind-1-8362619

NORTHERN Rail faced ridicule this morning after a train driver pulled out of a station leaving the conductor behind on the platform.

The fiasco, described by the company as an “operating incident”, left passengers locked in carriages while a taxi was summoned to pick up the guard.

There were long delays for commuters travelling on following services between Ilkley, Leeds and Bradford as a result.

The guard was left behind at Burley in Wharfedale, near Ilkley, causing one of the busiest services of the morning, from Ilkley to Leeds, to be terminated at Menston, half way down the line.

Passengers contacted The Yorkshire Post and took to Twitter to vent their frustration....
How is this possible?
 
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GW43125

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Juniper Driver

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If you work trains as a driver you would probably know how this is possible.

Though I don't know why it happened here as I don't work that line or stock.
 
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Bletchleyite

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It was easy enough on stock where the crew door had no interlock so the guard could give 2 then step/stumble out of the train.

On modern stock, I guess the guard would have to give 2, then open his door, step out and close it. It would seem hard for that to happen by accident.

That or the driver departs without having had 2 bells, which is possible but rather less likely (and quite serious - I guess it's a SPAD). The only time I'd see that as likely is a driver departing DOO when he should have had a guard on a service which is partially DOO, as quoted upthread.
 
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aformeruser

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There was once an incident where a Northern guard committed suicide by leaving the train while it was in motion. The driver's initial reaction was to tell passengers that the guard must have been left on the platform at the previous station so drivers obviously think it can happen.

In this case did the driver not terminate the train at the next station and open the doors to allow people to leave the train? I've noticed Northern drivers used to open doors on trains left empty at stations if they arrived at the train before the guard (which can help prevent delays if the guard is delayed on another service) but from my experience they don't seem to anymore.
 

tsr

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It was easy enough on stock where the crew door had no interlock so the guard could give 2 then step/stumble out of the train.
Such stock still exists. Can't comment on the traction in question here, as I don't sign it. But that is probably the most distinct possibility in the range of scenarios in which a guard could be left behind.

On modern stock, I guess the guard would have to give 2, then open his door, step out and close it. It would seem hard for that to happen by accident.
Potentially yes. In the mean time the driver might lose interlock or otherwise detect something strange going on.

That or the driver departs without having had 2 bells, which is possible but rather less likely (and quite serious - I guess it's a SPAD). The only time I'd see that as likely is a driver departing DOO when he should have had a guard on a service which is partially DOO, as quoted upthread.
It isn't a SPAD, as the dispatch bell/buzzer is not part of the signalling equipment, despite it being marked as "signal" on many stock. It doesn't mean a SPAD couldn't follow shortly afterwards, though, if the train then passed any given platform starter signal at danger.

That said, it is a serious safety issue, especially if the driver had not performed any sort of train safety check (likely not to have happened on Northern routes, but on some stock the bodyside cameras will remain active even during conductor dispatch, so I have known drivers to attempt to dispatch with that, and then remember that there should be a conductor at the last minute, in one way or another).
 

Bletchleyite

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There was once an incident where a Northern guard committed suicide by leaving the train while it was in motion. The driver's initial reaction was to tell passengers that the guard must have been left on the platform at the previous station so drivers obviously think it can happen.
That sad incident, and I vaguely knew him personally having met before following discussions on the uk.railway newsgroup of old, took place on a 150/1, which has a non-interlocked manual crew door, so the scenario of "buzz buzz, stumble and end up on the platform, train departs" is a not impossible one.

I believe as a result of it, considering it could have been an accident, the rules were changed on operating 150/1s to say that the guard must close *and lock* the crew door before giving 2, rather than the old Merseyrail-style practice of giving 2 with the door fully open then closing it and returning to duties once the wheels are moving, which could have led to it not being properly closed.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Such stock still exists. Can't comment on the traction in question here, as I don't sign it. But that is probably the most distinct possibility in the range of scenarios in which a guard could be left behind.
On Northern, that's only Class 150/1s, all others have interlock on the crew door. This train wasn't, AIUI, a Class 150/1.
 

broadgage

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Years ago, the guard being left behind was a fairly frequent event at Raynes Park in south west London.

One platform is on a relatively tight curve, and for the guard to see along the train he had to step back across most of the width of the platform, and if all was in order give a hand signal to the driver.

The driver should wait a very few seconds before departing, and the guard should step back into the train smartly.
If the driver left very smartly, or the guard was a little slow, then the guard got left behind.
In the rush hours, a taxi was on standby to convey the guard to the next station.
 

Deepgreen

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On a slight tangent, I was at Redhill a while ago, there was a Horsham service (Gatwick then Horsham), DOO to Gatwick and guarded from there. DOO service gets the tip and pulls out, at which point the guard runs onto the platform and yells "I'm supposed to be guarding that from Gatwick!"-never did find out what happened to that train in the end.
From Redhill, though, the train was entirely clear to depart without the second crew member aboard - if he/she was not aboard that is presumably owing to their own lack of time-keeping OR having been delayed on another train, in which case the station staff should have considered holding the train until he/she boarded (the delay sounds like it would have been less than a minute).

Good to know that it's not just us passengers who get left behind by intransigent or uninformed platform staff at Redhill!
 

Deepgreen

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Years ago, the guard being left behind was a fairly frequent event at Raynes Park in south west London.

One platform is on a relatively tight curve, and for the guard to see along the train he had to step back across most of the width of the platform, and if all was in order give a hand signal to the driver.

The driver should wait a very few seconds before departing, and the guard should step back into the train smartly.
If the driver left very smartly, or the guard was a little slow, then the guard got left behind.
In the rush hours, a taxi was on standby to convey the guard to the next station.
You are presumably talking of 4SUB and green flag times, as for the last few decades a starting (bell) signal would be required to be given by the guard once back on the train.
 

zuriblue

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When I lived in London there was a bit in the paper about a guard getting left behind at Victoria in the days of slam door stock. The train was running a little late and the guard was waiting on the platofrm when a passenger went into the guards van and gave 2 on the bell. The train was held at the next station until the guard could be taxied to his train.
 
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When I lived in London there was a bit in the paper about a guard getting left behind at Victoria in the days of slam door stock. The train was running a little late and the guard was waiting on the platofrm when a passenger went into the guards van and gave 2 on the bell. The train was held at the next station until the guard could be taxied to his train.
What if anything happened to the passenger?
 
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The Guards on the Southern 455s still regularly arrive and depart Holmwood / Ockley / Warnham with the rear cab doors left wide open so it is possible.
 

Eric

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But how has this incident happened on a class 333?

The conductor has to be on the train to close the doors and then give the signal to the driver.
 

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On an old Northern franchise it happened to a guard twice!
He earned the nicknames 'The Earl of Euxton' and the 'The King of Kirkham'
he got demoted to ticket collector after the second incident.
I think class 150's were involved.
One I know of is the guard not checking the aspect or it's out of vision, they keep the door open and step off thinking something is wrong (forgetting no buzzer from the driver yet), aspect changes, 2 back from the driver and the train sets off. By the time this happens they are half way down the platform looking at the doors and have no chance of getting on board or alerting the driver.
 

LowLevel

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There are plenty of ways this can happen. It's usually as simple as the guard forgetting to flick the local switch on then getting locked out when all the doors close and the driver taking off on auto pilot when they get interlock without the buzzer.

Easily mitigated on 15X - you kick the ingress valve nearest you. Not so easy on other traction.

It's not all that unusual.
 
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Was the train that this incident happened on definitely a 321 / 322 / 333 unit? If so i didnt think these units allowed the train to depart with the rear cab doors open? Is it possible that this train was actually a 150 instead?
 

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This is purely speculation but could there have been a trainee with the guard? The trainee has given two on the bell and the guard/trainer has been left on the platform?
 

Bletchleyite

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An interesting thing in the news article is they mentioned passengers had to get off via the cab, which is a bit awkward in a 32x.

Is the driver strictly prohibited from opening doors even in those circumstances?
 

the sniper

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An interesting thing in the news article is they mentioned passengers had to get off via the cab, which is a bit awkward in a 32x.

Is the driver strictly prohibited from opening doors even in those circumstances?
The unit might be one that requires a door key switch to be keyed in, with a specific key a driver might not be issued with, so they wouldn't be able to release them other then by egressing them individually. Again, stock dependent.
 

BestWestern

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The unit might be one that requires a door key switch to be keyed in, with a specific key a driver might not be issued with, so they wouldn't be able to release them other then by egressing them individually. Again, stock dependent.
It's also possible that the Guard may have left the doors 'keyed in' somewhere and the Driver, for whatever reason, didn't want to or couldn't walk back to switch them out.
 

muz379

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There are plenty of ways this can happen. It's usually as simple as the guard forgetting to flick the local switch on then getting locked out when all the doors close and the driver taking off on auto pilot when they get interlock without the buzzer.

Easily mitigated on 15X - you kick the ingress valve nearest you. Not so easy on other traction.

It's not all that unusual.
This is one of the more likely explanations , done it myself as a guard forgot to flick the switch and had my local slam shut on me . Easily done if you have to secure the panel to provide assistance to a passenger or something .

Another situation I have heard leading to something like this is when the guard after closing the doors leaves the train to investigate a hazard light not going out on the coach from which they are working . In order to ensure that it is a fault with another door you might close your local door behind you . If it is just another set of doors sticking slightly open once you pull them shut the driver will get interlock and there is risk that again they could take off on auto pilot .

An interesting thing in the news article is they mentioned passengers had to get off via the cab, which is a bit awkward in a 32x.

Is the driver strictly prohibited from opening doors even in those circumstances?
Releasing the doors at a station is not something that a driver has competency in(at northern) and given that they will already be under scrutiny for their role in this they might not fancy taking the risk of further fanning the flames so to speak.

It is also possible that the door control panel towards the rear of the train where the guard was working from is still keyed in meaning the driver cant key in at a panel close to the driving cab . If it is a busy train they might not be able to easily get through . Or they might not fancy the walk of shame .
 
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leedslad82

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This is one of the more likely explanations , done it myself as a guard forgot to flick the switch and had my local slam shut on me . Easily done if you have to secure the panel to provide assistance to a passenger or something .

Another situation I have heard leading to something like this is when the guard after closing the doors leaves the train to investigate a hazard light not going out on the coach from which they are working . In order to ensure that it is a fault with another door you might close your local door behind you . If it is just another set of doors sticking slightly open once you pull them shut the driver will get interlock and there is risk that again they could take off on auto pilot .


Releasing the doors at a station is not something that a driver has competency in(at northern) and given that they will already be under scrutiny for their role in this they might not fancy taking the risk of further fanning the flames so to speak.

It is also possible that the door control panel towards the rear of the train where the guard was working from is still keyed in meaning the driver cant key in at a panel close to the driving cab . If it is a busy train they might not be able to easily get through . Or they might not fancy the walk of shame .
As someone who used to catch the service in question I can confirm that at that time the train would be heaving. So much so ticket checks take place on platforms at certain stations as the guard has little chance of performing a check
 

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As we seem to be down to past anecdotes ...

The Weston, Clevedon & Portishead was a rickety independent light railway that survived until WW2. There was a level crossing where the crossing keeper did not work evenings, so the last train of the day, probably one coach only, had the guard get down and open, then close, the gates. In wartime showing of lamps at night was forbidden, so the guard developed a particular code on his whistle when back on board, for the driver to set off.

One evening the train arrived at the terminus without the guard, who arrived a few hours later having walked from the crossing.

Unfortunately, the crossing keeper, who lived in a cottage right next to the gates, kept a parrot. Which appeared to have paid close attention to the special whistle code ...
 

Moonshot

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as we seem to be down to past anecdotes ...

The weston, clevedon & portishead was a rickety independent light railway that survived until ww2. There was a level crossing where the crossing keeper did not work evenings, so the last train of the day, probably one coach only, had the guard get down and open, then close, the gates. In wartime showing of lamps at night was forbidden, so the guard developed a particular code on his whistle when back on board, for the driver to set off.

One evening the train arrived at the terminus without the guard, who arrived a few hours later having walked from the crossing.

unfortunately, the crossing keeper, who lived in a cottage right next to the gates, kept a parrot. Which appeared to have paid close attention to the special whistle code ...


brilliant
 
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