Travelling without Tunnels Puzzle: can I get from Lewisham to Newcastle?

[swhitworth]

Hello all, this is something of a puzzle I need solving.

I am due to have an ear operation on 21st February and will need to avoid sudden movements or changes in pressure for some time afterwards. This includes flying and travelling on trains through tunnels. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how look at it) my step-sister is getting married on 15th March in Newcastle. I live in Lewisham.

So, to cut to the chase, is it possible to travel by train (and maybe some buses, if I must) from Lewisham to Newcastle or Durham on 14th March, returning on the 16th, WITHOUT PASSING THROUGH ANY TUNNELS? If so, what are the most time and cost effective routes?

Thanks in advance

 

[gordonthemoron]

The only tunnel I can think of between Kings Cross and Newcastle is between Peterborough & Grantham, you could avoid that by doing Peterborough-Spalding-Sleaford-Lincoln-Newark/Retford/Doncaster and then continue North. Although there may be some short ones between Darlo & Durham
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forget that, I've just remembered Welwyn North

 

[Sacro]

The only tunnel I can think of between Kings Cross and Newcastle is between Peterborough & Grantham, you could avoid that by doing Peterborough-Spalding-Sleaford-Lincoln-Newark/Retford/Doncaster and then continue North. Although there may be some short ones between Darlo & Durham
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
forget that, I've just remembered Welwyn North

And how does one get from King's Cross to Finsbury Park without going through tunnels!?

 

[yorkie]

The only tunnel I can think of between Kings Cross and Newcastle is between Peterborough &[ Grantham

And just north of Grantham

forget that, I've just remembered Welwyn North

And Potters Bar/Hadley Wood areas, New Southgate, etc...
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And how does one get from King's Cross to Finsbury Park without going through tunnels!?

I think we can forgive him Copenhagen & Gas Works tunnels, given the slow speeds involved

 

[swhitworth]

I could always get a bus to Finsbury Park. Could I avoid Welwyn by going via Hertford North?

 

[TheEdge]

The only tunnel I can think of between Kings Cross and Newcastle is between Peterborough & Grantham, you could avoid that by doing Peterborough-Spalding-Sleaford-Lincoln-Newark/Retford/Doncaster and then continue North. Although there may be some short ones between Darlo & Durham
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
forget that, I've just remembered Welwyn North

Except for Gasworks, Copenhagen and all the tunnels between Alexandra Palace and Potters Bar.

Perhaps Liverpool Street to Cambridge along the West Anglia on GA (not sure but looking on Wiki it doesn't appear there are any, unless even the approaches to LST are too underground), Cambridge to Peterborough on XC. As above via Lincoln and then on to Newcastle.

I could always get a bus to Finsbury Park. Could I avoid Welwyn by going via Hertford North?

No, there is still a tunnel on the Hertford loop.

 

[Searle]

I could always get a bus to Finsbury Park. Could I avoid Welwyn by going via Hertford North?

A tunnel just south of Bayford, although it's usually only taken at about 60-70mph, so it's not as bad as the ECML!

 

[TheEdge]

Can you pass through a tunnel slowly?

If so you could go Liverpool Street to Ipswich (through Ipswich tunnel but I think the linespeed is only something like 20/30), then Ipswich - Peterborough and as above.

 

[ainsworth74]

How about the Midland Main Line to Sheffield?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Tunnel at Clay Cross isn't there?

 

[CallySleeper]

How about the Midland Main Line to Sheffield?

Tunnels at Camden Road, Hampstead, Elstree, Ampthill, Redhill, Milford, Clay X and of course Bradway.

 

[swhitworth]

Can you pass through a tunnel slowly?

If so you could go Liverpool Street to Ipswich (through Ipswich tunnel but I think the linespeed is only something like 20/30), then Ipswich - Peterborough and as above.

TBH, I don't know, but I have a suspicion that a ruptured ear drum will be both messy and painful so I'm inclined to err on the side of caution.

 

[transmanche]

Perhaps Liverpool Street to Cambridge along the West Anglia on GA (not sure but looking on Wiki it doesn't appear there are any, unless even the approaches to LST are too underground), Cambridge to Peterborough on XC. As above via Lincoln and then on to Newcastle.

That would seem to be the best option to me.

I have an inkling that such a route would have been valid under the old routeing guide... but not sure about the new one.

 

[DarloRich]

you could use the river services into central london then bus to a sation but going north out of london will be an issue.

Thinking on perhaps a number of bus services to a station outside central london on the Anglia route (Tottenham Hale?) then via Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough & Lincoln to Newark/Doncaster then north perhaps?

EDIT - scratch that - there are two small tunnels past Audley End arent there?

 

[philjo]

The only tunnel I can think of between Kings Cross and Newcastle is between Peterborough & Grantham, you could avoid that by doing Peterborough-Spalding-Sleaford-Lincoln-Newark/Retford/Doncaster and then continue North. Although there may be some short ones between Darlo & Durham
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
forget that, I've just remembered Welwyn North

There are 9 tunnels between Kings Cross & Stevenage via Welwyn. There are a couple of long ones on the Hertford loop near Cuffley & I think 2 shorter ones just north of Hertford.

You would want to avoid the south end of the ECML - there are couple of longer ones on the ECML near Barnet and the 2 at Welwyn where the fast lines in both directions go through the same bore so if another EC train passes at the same time the passing speed is over 200mph resulting in a much higher pressure.

Are there any on the Marylebone route? Otherwise I don't think there are any via Reading & Oxford other than Chesterfield? (though New street could count as a tunnel!)

 

[LexyBoy]

Paddington-Reading/Oxford then XC to Newcastle I don't think has any tunnels except the approach to Birmingham New Street which I wouldn't consider a tunnel as such (it's much wider and more open, you don't get any kind of pressure change like with a proper tunnel on the mainline). I don't know the route between Derby and Doncaster though. Could be reasonably priced if you're able to get a cheap Advance on the XC service.

Coach from London to Newcastle would be a cheap alternative and possibly not that slow compared to roundabout routes.

 

[Buttsy]

I would suggest: Lewisham - Peckham Rye - Clapham Junction - Reading - Birmingham New Street (not via Coventry) - Derby - Nottingham - Newark - Durham/Newcastle.
I know New Street has tunnels on entrance, but these will be taken at low speed so there will not be the pressure that you would get through a higher speed tunnel.
I think that this route is the most tunnel-free, but I am prepared to be corrected.
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Paddington-Reading/Oxford then XC to Newcastle I don't think has any tunnels except the approach to Birmingham New Street which I wouldn't consider a tunnel as such (it's much wider and more open, you don't get any kind of pressure change like with a proper tunnel on the mainline). I don't know the route between Derby and Doncaster though. Could be reasonably priced if you're able to get a cheap Advance on the XC service.

Coach from London to Newcastle would be a cheap alternative and possibly not that slow compared to roundabout routes.

Wouldn't you go through Clay Cross tunnel?

 

[DarloRich]

I think I may have it!

By a mixture of land routes to Knebworth. ECML to Peterborough, then via Sleaford, Lincoln, Gainsborough, Doncaster and the ECML to Newcastle

DONT use the metro when you get there!

 

[LexyBoy]

Wouldn't you go through Clay Cross tunnel?

I did say that I didn't know the route north of Derby...

Going via Nottingham and Newark works I think. Taking the 436 bus from Lewisham to Paddington, then a train to Reading or Oxford (same platform interchange for the latter, probably cross-platform for the former) would be preferable to Lewisham-CJ-Reading - whilst there are no tunnels on that route, the door opening alarm on the 458s would inflict some pain. Almost certainly quite a bit quicker too.

 

[Tomnick]

There are very short (<100yd) tunnels just south of Doncaster and south-east of Lincoln. Not sure whether these will be a problem - probably not. For the true pedant though, these can be avoided by a Peterborough - Sleaford - Nottingham (not via Grantham) - Lincoln - Barnetby - Doncaster route. Can't find any way of starting from closer to London than Knebworth though!

 

[CallySleeper]

National Express?

 

[matt]

Paddington-Reading/Oxford then XC to Newcastle I don't think has any tunnels except the approach to Birmingham New Street which I wouldn't consider a tunnel as such (it's much wider and more open, you don't get any kind of pressure change like with a proper tunnel on the mainline). I don't know the route between Derby and Doncaster though. Could be reasonably priced if you're able to get a cheap Advance on the XC service.

Coach from London to Newcastle would be a cheap alternative and possibly not that slow compared to roundabout routes.

There is a short tunnel between Banbury and Leamington Spa

 

[DarloRich]

There are very short (<100yd) tunnels just south of Doncaster and south-east of Lincoln. Not sure whether these will be a problem - probably not. For the true pedant though, these can be avoided by a Peterborough - Sleaford - Nottingham (not via Grantham) - Lincoln - Barnetby - Doncaster route. Can't find any way of starting from closer to London than Knebworth though!

that is the route i was after!

I didn't count Balby Bridge at Doncaster as a tunnel in order to cheat!

 

[Class172]

I was going to suggest Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Banbury-Birmingham, but learning of those tunnels ruins that plan!

Are there any tunnels via GWML and Golden Valley Line?

 

[matt]

I was going to suggest Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Banbury-Birmingham, but learning of those tunnels ruins that plan!

Are there any tunnels via GWML and Golden Valley Line?

Yes there is a tunnel at Sapperton.

 

[yorksrob]

I think if the OP doesn‘t mind a stroll across London, his best bet is probably the train to Cannon Street then walk to Lpool St to go via Ely ,Peterborough and Lincoln. Lots of tunnels on the MML and ECML (and I've definately felt my ears pop in the one near Grantham). Only done the GE line to Cambridge once, bit I can't remember any along there.

 

[transmanche]

I think if the OP doesn‘t mind a stroll across London, his best bet is probably the train to Cannon Street then walk to Lpool St...

TfL buses 35/47/48/149/344 from the end of Cannon Street will reduce the walk. (Probably won't save any time, but will certainly reduce the walking distance.)

 

[TheEdge]

Surely the easiest (and maybe quickest given the massive circuitous routes proposed) solution to this would be a National Express coach.

 

[DarloRich]

There are 2 tunnels on the Cambridge line at Audley end, both of around 400 yds

 

[yorksrob]

There are 2 tunnels on the Cambridge line at Audley end, both of around 400 yds

Well, in that case, I'm stumped.