Trivia: Place names that you're not sure how to pronounce

[fowler9]

Have we had Gateacre in Liverpool yet?

 

[Panceltic]

Yeah I have a friend from Lodz (Sorry I don't know how to put the bar on). Thing is when she says it it does sound very much like Woodge.

Woodge is a very good approximation of how Łódź is pronounced in Polish. However, Polish devoices final obstruents as a rule; therefore in isolation, the pronunciation of the city's name sounds more like Wooch - dź is the voiced pair of ć. (For the same reason, native Polish speakers struggle to differentiate beak and big, or bed and bet for example).

 

[hexagon789]

Woodge is a very good approximation of how Łódź is pronounced in Polish. However, Polish devoices final obstruents as a rule; therefore in isolation, the pronunciation of the city's name sounds more like Wooch - dź is the voiced pair of ć. (For the same reason, native Polish speakers struggle to differentiate beak and big, or bed and bet for example).

So they have a sort of k-g and d-t merger?

 

[hexagon789]

Have we had Gateacre in Liverpool yet?

Gate-ucker or perhaps Gat-ucker?

 

[Panceltic]

So they have a sort of k-g and d-t merger?

Well, sort of. All voiced consonants (b, d, g, v, z etc.) become unvoiced (p, t, k, f, s etc.), but only at the end of the word (or sentence) i.e. before a pause. The same thing happens in Russian by the way (you will perhaps have noticed that Gorbachev is pronounced Gorbachof etc.).

 

[fowler9]

Gate-ucker or perhaps Gat-ucker?

More like the film Gattaca (the last two vowels can be almost like a French accented e in a Scouse accent. Especially the last one).

 

[fowler9]

Well, sort of. All voiced consonants (b, d, g, v, z etc.) become unvoiced (p, t, k, f, s etc.), but only at the end of the word (or sentence) i.e. before a pause. The same thing happens in Russian by the way (you will perhaps have noticed that Gorbachev is pronounced Gorbachof etc.).

Brilliant. It is really interesting. The k-g and d-t thing is all about the tiniest difference in the positioning of the tongue.

 

[hexagon789]

Well, sort of. All voiced consonants (b, d, g, v, z etc.) become unvoiced (p, t, k, f, s etc.), but only at the end of the word (or sentence) i.e. before a pause. The same thing happens in Russian by the way (you will perhaps have noticed that Gorbachev is pronounced Gorbachof etc.).

Yes, but I thought that was just down to how Cyrillic was transliterated into Latin characters.

 

[hexagon789]

More like the film Gattaca (the last two vowels can be almost like a French accented e in a Scouse accent. Especially the last one).

Not too far off, Gattaca sounds like a planet in Star Wars or Star Trek or something!

 

[Panceltic]

Brilliant. It is really interesting. The k-g and d-t thing is all about the tiniest difference in the positioning of the tongue.

Yes, linguistics is indeed a very interesting science. Just a small correction though, the difference between k-g, t-d, s-z etc. is solely in the voicedness (i.e. the vocal chords vibrate when pronouncing g d z, but they don't when pronouncing k t s). The positioning of the tongue is exactly the same.

 

[sw1ller]

Hawarden (how-ard-on) “Hardon”

 

[Panceltic]

Yes, but I thought that was just down to how Cyrillic was transliterated into Latin characters.

Not in this case, although there are many instances when a sensible transliteration/transcription from Cyrillic to Latin is just not possible, either distorting the correct pronunciation or completely ignoring the original orthography.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, linguistics is indeed a very interesting science. Just a small correction though, the difference between k-g, t-d, s-z etc. is solely in the voicedness (i.e. the vocal chords vibrate when pronouncing g d z, but they don't when pronouncing k t s). The positioning of the tongue is exactly the same.

Voiced and unvoiced consonants

 

[hexagon789]

Not in this case, although there are many instances when a sensible transliteration/transcription from Cyrillic to Latin is just not possible, either distorting the correct pronunciation or completely ignoring the original orthography.

I see, along the lines of where certain languages have sounds or letters with no direct equivalent in English?

 

[hexagon789]

Hawarden (how-ard-on) “Hardon”

Can I ask where Hawarden is? Yorkshire?

 

[fowler9]

Not too far off, Gattaca sounds like a planet in Star Wars or Star Trek or something!

Ah mate, sorry for being morbid but there was a news story a few years back about a lad from Liverpool College who killed his parents and went on a bit of a knees up with their cash. The tv news said he was from a wealthy village near Liverpool called Gate Acre. We all thought it was bizarre. We have a habit in Liverpool of calling places like Gateacre, Garston and Woolton "The Village" even though they haven't been villages for hundreds of years. Gateacre is right next door to Belle Vale which is possibly the worst named place on Merseyside. It isn't a beautiful valley.

 

[fowler9]

Hawarden is where the Airbus factory is next door to Chester.

 

[hexagon789]

Hawarden is where the Airbus factory is next door to Chester.

Righto, cheers

 

[hexagon789]

Ah mate, sorry for being morbid but there was a news story a few years back about a lad from Liverpool College who killed his parents and went on a bit of a knees up with their cash. The tv news said he was from a wealthy village near Liverpool called Gate Acre. We all thought it was bizarre. We have a habit in Liverpool of calling places like Gateacre, Garston and Woolton "The Village" even though they haven't been villages for hundreds of years. Gateacre is right next door to Belle Vale which is possibly the worst named place on Merseyside. It isn't a beautiful valley.

News programmes often seem to get place names wrong. I'm sure there are worse valleys

 

[fowler9]

Righto, cheers

I think it is actually in Flintshire in Wales.

 

[hexagon789]

I think it is actually in Flintshire in Wales.

Not that far from Chester though

 

[fowler9]

News programmes often seem to get place names wrong. I'm sure there are worse valleys

Well the bible mentions the valley of death. They could have meant Belle Vale. At least the shopping centre.

 

[fowler9]

Not that far from Chester though

Yeah, just outside. The Belugas carrying the wings sometimes fly over ours at a couple of thousand feet.

 

[hexagon789]

Well the bible mentions the valley of death. They could have meant Belle Vale. At least the shopping centre.

Sounds decidedly grim!

 

[hexagon789]

Yeah, just outside. The Belugas carrying the wings sometimes fly over ours at a couple of thousand feet.

Seem to be on a low flight path myself

 

[fowler9]

Seem to be on a low flight path myself

It's Spring mate. Clear skies ahead hopefully.

 

[hexagon789]

It's Spring mate. Clear skies ahead hopefully.

Hopefully

 

[davsarg]

I think standard German pronunciation would be something like "Shin - ig - er - platter" said with no pause between the four sounds. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it's how the locals say it. I've always found Swiss German almost impossible to follow! Fortunately, station & on-train announcements are made in "High German".

I've visited there (the Jungfrau Region) loads of times over the years. That combined with conversations I've had with the locals means I can confidently say that the correct pronunciation is "Sheen - ig - er - platter".

While we're in that area of Switzerland, here's another one for you all to try - Zweilütschinen, which is a nearby village and a junction railway station. It took me a few visits to the area to crack how to say that one

 

[hexagon789]

I've visited there (the Jungfrau Region) loads of times over the years. That combined with conversations I've had with the locals means I can confidently say that the correct pronunciation is "Sheen - ig - er - platter".

While we're in that area of Switzerland, here's another one for you all to try - Zweilütschinen, which is a nearby village and a junction railway station. It took me a few visits to the area to crack how to say that one

Sheen-ig-er-platter is the only pronunciation I've ever heard.

As for Zweilütschinen I think it's Tsvy-loo-chee-nin, that's certainly how Malcolm Brown said it.

 

[sw1ller]

Yeah, just outside. The Belugas carrying the wings sometimes fly over ours at a couple of thousand feet.

This is correct. It is Flintshire even though it has a Cheshire post code.