Merthyr Imp
Member
- Bevois Valley is pronounced Beevus Valley, even though it is named after a frenchman.
Similar to Belvoir Castle near Grantham - pronounced 'Beaver'.
- Bevois Valley is pronounced Beevus Valley, even though it is named after a frenchman.
I may very well be wrong here, but perhaps Llanelli is already the Welsh spelling, whereas Caerphilly is the English spelling. After a tiny bit of research I found that Caerphilly’s Welsh spelling is Caerffili with only one ‘L’ so this could explain why the two places are pronounced differently.What forever confuses me is that the LLs next to the end of the names Caerphilly and Llanelli are pronounced differently.
Correct, Caerphilly is a wholly unecessary Anglicised spelling. Caerffili is spelt phonetically, like everything else in Welsh.I may very well be wrong here, but perhaps Llanelli is already the Welsh spelling, whereas Caerphilly is the English spelling. After a tiny bit of research I found that Caerphilly’s Welsh spelling is Caerffili with only one ‘L’ so this could explain why the two places are pronounced differently.
FAO @NorthernSpirit
Sowerby Bridge I've heard the first syllable as both "Sow" and "Saw", both from locals too. The second syllable is often dropped so you'll hear "Sawby Bridge" quite a bit particularly from the natives.
As you'll no doubt know, West Yorkshire folk often shorten things when they get said over and over. "Sawby Bridge" is an example of this, as are Slawit and "Linfit" (Linthwaite). Slawit instead of Slaithwaite is dialectal, but the generally accepted pronunciation of the station West of Huddersfield is Slath-waite. I've never heard anyone else from the Colne Valley (I'm a native) deliberately use the long-form ("ay") of the first vowel, as the robot on the 185s does.The way I pronouce it is a mixture of both "Sow" and "Saw" as So-awr-bee since I hadn't a clue on how its actually pronouced despite living around eight miles away and even resorting to asking a local there, at least this clears it up.
Not only phonetically, but carefully.C Caerffili is spelt phonetically, like everything else in Welsh.
Easier than what?Blimey, Spanish is a much easier language.
Alvechurch, I have always pronounced Alv'church but the recorded announcements have always pronounced the 'e'. I believe I have the correct local pronounciation but I may be wrong.
I can assure you, from watching Derek Brockway on the Welsh weather forecast that Betws-y-Coed often gets pronounced "Betsy- coid" this is due to the "w" in Betws being a short sound {think oo in "wood"} when said fast it comes out as bet-us uh coid.. which then contracts down to betsy-coid. Truth is, Welsh doesn't have any "standard" pronunciation unlike English so it tends to be up to the locals how any particular sound should be... another example is the "wy" sound... in many parts it is pronounced "oi" whereas others it is "wee" I live in a house that's name begins "Llywn".. as my landlord told me it's pronounced "Hloo-in" that's how I pronounce it, but I know half a dozen people who absolutely insist I'm pronouncing my own house name wrong!Although I am not a Welsh speaker, I can tell you that 'w' is a vowel in Welsh pronounced 'oo'. I would pronounce Betws-y-Coed as Betoos-i-Co-ed. I have been there on a Bws! There is a town in South Wales called Ebbw Vale which also has a 'w' pronounced 'oo'.
I find the best way to get the "ll" in Welsh is to place my tongue at the roof of my mouth as if I'm going to say the "l" and instead of voicing an "l" aspirate as you would with an "h". Whether or not that's how a native welsh speaker does it I don't know... but I've never been told I'm getting the sound wrong lolLL should not be said as an H, you need to practice LL its more like if you were Scottish and saying Och ai the way you say the ch in Och is similar to LL
Same here and I have never been corrected either.I find the best way to get the "ll" in Welsh is to place my tongue at the roof of my mouth as if I'm going to say the "l" and instead of voicing an "l" aspirate as you would with an "h". Whether or not that's how a native welsh speaker does it I don't know... but I've never been told I'm getting the sound wrong lol
A thing very recently encountered by me: it surfaced on a trip to north-west England with two friends, involving among other places, the rather bleakly beautiful Forest of Bowland, in Lancashire / Yorkshire. If I've ever heard this name spoken aloud before this recent "bash", I don't remember it. One friend pronounced it "Boh-land" (as I would, without hesitation, have transliterated it); the other, throughout the trip, pronounced it "Bolland", which he said was the local pronunciation. (It's not clear on what authority he had that info -- he doesn't come from those parts, and I don't think he's ever lived thereabouts.) Any comments from those with relevant knowledge?
Most of the Forest of Bow-land is (?was) in the ecclesiastical Rural Deanery pronounced Boll-and. I've heard and used both, without being corrected, in other words. And it's the Trough of Bow-land....
Not that there is a railway station anyway (though there was a contractor's line).
My better half was brought up in Chaddesden on a bus route to Ilkeston. She pronounces it in full, but she thinks that the locals may put the emphasis on the first syllable, so that it ends up as IlkstonIlkeston...
I've heard folk saying "Ilson" but is that a dialectal "pet-name" (like Linfit or Slawit) or is it actually correct but often ignored?
Many London destinations are the same, Holborn splits opinions, as some call it "hoeburn", South wark is commonly pronounced as "Suvvark" and Dalston is affectionately known as "Doorston". It's probably the same as northerners pronouncing "Hull" as " Ull".My mother was born in Marylebone and always pronounced it ''Marry-le-bone'' and I don't believe she so much as visited anywhere in the Midlands in her life. Could be a class thing, may I suggest.
What else would you call Holborn (apart from dropping the H, common among station staff in my youth, allowing us knowalls to wonder how the 4EPB would get to Argyll)? Ditto Southwark (as in Southern and Southwell but not Southall!) - though the "vv" is a bit Sarf Lunnen for my posh taste.Holborn... some call it "hoeburn", South wark is commonly pronounced as "Suvvark".
The half dozen people are right, your landlord is wrong. Of course Welsh has standard pronunciation. Every letter is sounded. Regional accents and local usage may vary but to nowhere near the same extent as English. Listen to a native of Birmingham and a native of Hull and they could from different countries. What is 'Standard English? Many everyday English words have changed in everyday usage during my lifetime , principally by the acquired American habit of stressing the first syllable e.g. REEsearch etc. By the way, I have never heard my former neighbour, Derek Brockway mispronounce Betws y Coed.I can assure you, from watching Derek Brockway on the Welsh weather forecast that Betws-y-Coed often gets pronounced "Betsy- coid" this is due to the "w" in Betws being a short sound {think oo in "wood"} when said fast it comes out as bet-us uh coid.. which then contracts down to betsy-coid. Truth is, Welsh doesn't have any "standard" pronunciation unlike English so it tends to be up to the locals how any particular sound should be... another example is the "wy" sound... in many parts it is pronounced "oi" whereas others it is "wee" I live in a house that's name begins "Llywn".. as my landlord told me it's pronounced "Hloo-in" that's how I pronounce it, but I know half a dozen people who absolutely insist I'm pronouncing my own house name wrong!
I live in a house that's name begins "Llywn".. as my landlord told me it's pronounced "Hloo-in" that's how I pronounce it, but I know half a dozen people who absolutely insist I'm pronouncing my own house name wrong!
English, Polish, Finnish, Estonian. How extensive a list do you want for me personally?Easier than what?
A small typographical error there: I'm sure you meant to write "Llwyn" (bush). I wouldn't normally bother mentioning it, bus seeing as we're on a thread about spelling and pronunciations...
(Incidentally I grew up in a house with the name Llwyn Celyn - Holly Bush. By my reckoning, it looks like you've got the pronunciation right, though some regional Welsh accents do tend to mush the two syllables together into one.)
Edit: It seems Gwenllian and I disagree on that one. It is difficult to write down words phonetically without resorting to something like the IPA alphabet, and the "wy" dipthong in the middle of the word means there's more scope for variety than usual.
See my comment above about mis spelling the word.. so the half dozen people are right are they? and everyone else is wrong? strange how the half doz people who correct me are from North Wales and I live in West Wales... regional dialect I presume... Welsh does NOT have standard pronunciation... jeez North Welsh is hardly the same language as South Welsh... now in North is "rwan" in South it's "nawr" then there's ble/lle... I could go on... of course, my landlord, being a native speaker, having been born and grown up in the house I now live in, his family having lived in it since it was built would have no idea how to pronounce the name of the place?The half dozen people are right, your landlord is wrong. Of course Welsh has standard pronunciation. Every letter is sounded.
I suggest you watch the weather forecast more often then... when he says it on the forecast it most certainly sounds like "betsuh coid" but then I did also give a run down of how the name contracts as you say it faster... a bit like I've mentioned on other threads about "diolch yn fawr" which on my travels I've heard as DEE-olkh un Vow-er all the way through to dokh uh var... all from native born Welsh speakers!By the way, I have never heard my former neighbour, Derek Brockway mispronounce Betws y Coed.
I’ve called it ‘Hol-born’ the few times I’ve tried to get there. Gate staff looked at me in a reet funny way.What else would you call Holborn (apart from dropping the H, common among station staff in my youth, allowing us knowalls to wonder how the 4EPB would get to Argyll)? Ditto Southwark (as in Southern and Southwell but not Southall!) - though the "vv" is a bit Sarf Lunnen for my posh taste.
Despite being quite simple I’ve heard train announcements for ‘Montpelier’ prounonced at least four different ways.
See my comment above about mis spelling the word.. so the half dozen people are right are they? and everyone else is wrong? strange how the half doz people who correct me are from North Wales and I live in West Wales... regional dialect I presume... Welsh does NOT have standard pronunciation... jeez North Welsh is hardly the same language as South Welsh... now in North is "rwan" in South it's "nawr" then there's ble/lle... I could go on... of course, my landlord, being a native speaker, having been born and grown up in the house I now live in, his family having lived in it since it was built would have no idea how to pronounce the name of the place?
I suggest you watch the weather forecast more often then... when he says it on the forecast it most certainly sounds like "betsuh coid" but then I did also give a run down of how the name contracts as you say it faster... a bit like I've mentioned on other threads about "diolch yn fawr" which on my travels I've heard as DEE-olkh un Vow-er all the way through to dokh uh var... all from native born Welsh speakers!
Welsh does have standard pronuciation. "rwan" vs "nawr" is a difference in dialect, any North Walian or South Walian is able to say both words because the rules of pronuciation are the same. They might end up sounding different, that's a difference in accent, just as in England.