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Trivia: Railway Stations that are next to each other but have no direct services?
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Perhaps!
In the absence of any proper rules I made my own up but accept that your suggestion has some merit. Thus I modify my list:
Nantwich and Norton Bridge STAFFORD
Norton Bridge and Crewe
Norton Bridge STAFFORD and Sandbach
Norton Bridge STAFFORD and Winsford
Norton Bridge and Stone
Nantwich and Winsford
Nantwich and Sandbach
Sandbach and Northwich
Sandbach and Greenbank
Rugeley TV and Burton
Rugeley TV and Market Harborough
Rugeley TV and South Wigston
Burton and Market Harborough
Burton and South Wigston
Lee and Grove Park
Wigan NW and Patricroft
Ashburys and Manchester Victoria
Ashburys and Moston
Ashburys and Ashton
Moston and Ashton
Frome and Pewsey
Bruton and Pewsey
Pewsey and Trowbridge
If you allow Brixton and Denmark Hill then why not:
Stone and Rugeley TV
if not then:
Barlaston and Rugeley TV
and if still not:
Stoke and Rugeley TV.
That leaves me a couple of suggestions down so I'll add (they really are ten a penny):
Denton and Manchester Victoria
Denton and Moston
Denton and Ashburys
Anyone whose rules disallow a one-way station such as Denton can substitute Stockport for Denton to meet such a convention.
Altnabreac
Established Member
You've all failed to mention Kirknewton - Lockerbie, the longest distance between 2 stations and one with no direct services.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Other than the fact that there is a direct service from Chesterfield and Dronfield to Dore?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C65251/2016/08/03/advanced
But I don't think that this is a very good example, even if there were no direct train, as Dore isn't on the same line - you couldn't get from Chesterfield/ Dronfield to Dore without reversing somewhere (either on the line towards Sheffield or the line towards Grindleford).
You might as well say "New Cross and New Cross Gate" or "Vauxhall and Battersea Park" if you want to include Dore.
However close it may appear to the MML, the single platform at Dore is very definitely on the Hope Valley line.
Two trains, first thing in the morning, 15 minutes apart
In my defense, totally off memory!
theageofthetra
On Moderation
New Beckenham & Beckenham Jct (unless during engineering works on Mid Kent). Clock House & Kent House. Catford & Catford Bridge.
What about the termini? Kings Cross & St Pancras Cannon St & Blackfriars?
What about the termini? Kings Cross & St Pancras Cannon St & Blackfriars?
Deepgreen
Established Member
The odd service pattern on the North Downs line gives adjacent stations variable access to each other - e.g. Shalford to Chilworth/Gomshall on several trains - essentially the 'stopping' trains stop at different groups of stations in alternate hours, making some adjacent stations pretty poorly-connected for most of the off-peak.
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I commend reading the first post on this thread which reads "I am just trying to make a list of all railway stations that are next to each other and have a railway line going between them but have no direct train services at all between the two stations despite being next to each other."
To my reading that rules out "Clock House & Kent House, Catford & Catford Bridge and Kings Cross & St Pancras". Cannon St & Blackfriars and New Beckenham & Beckenham Junction appear to be valid.
It may of course be contended that there are railway lines running between, say, Clock House & Kent House though these pass through other stations and are very convoluted if the proposal that reversals are not permitted is applied. If reversal is permitted all manner of possibilities open up (e.g. Chippenham to Kemble reversing short of the platforms at Swindon.....) - I think I prefer the non-reversal "rule".
There is a direct Lockerbie-Carstairs at 07:11 Mon-Fri. It calls at Carstairs to provide an earlier Edinburgh connection from the south.
Nothing in the other direction.
Clansman
Established Member
Kings Park to Muirend - although I don't think Cathcart would count for this one as the platforms lie on the adjacent Mount Florida line.
Springburn to Bishopbriggs
Ashfield to Bishopbriggs
Camelon to Croy
Stevenston to Irvine
Newton to Uddingston - technically you could do it without changing trains but would involve 2 separate diagrammed services.
Kirkwood to Coatbridge Central
Maryhill to Westerton
Springburn to Bishopbriggs
Ashfield to Bishopbriggs
Camelon to Croy
Stevenston to Irvine
Newton to Uddingston - technically you could do it without changing trains but would involve 2 separate diagrammed services.
Kirkwood to Coatbridge Central
Maryhill to Westerton
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theageofthetra
On Moderation
Lee Spur connects Lee & Grove Park and passenger services very occasionally use it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sounds like a ruling in a game of Mornington Crescent!
I withdraw Frome/Pewsey from my list.
I am, however, hanging on to this one as there are no scheduled passenger services (to my knowledge) and the possibility of exceptional circumstances leading to exceptional services must apply to every cited pairing that conforms to the 'connected by rail rule'.
And now a few more (all assuming there to have been no further loss of facilities in the Carlisle area since Track Maps Vol.4 3rd Edition):
Armathwaite/Dalston
Wetheral/Penrith
Armathwaite/Penrith
Dalston/Penrith
steamybrian
Established Member
Do Bedhampton and Cosham have any direct trains.
The Coastway trains used to run non-stop between Havant and Cosham/Fareham but unsure if they still do..?
It appears that Redbridge and Totton do not appear to have direct train services between the two stations but I am open for correction.?
The weekly train serving Shippea Hill does not call at the next station Lakenheath..!!!!
The Coastway trains used to run non-stop between Havant and Cosham/Fareham but unsure if they still do..?
It appears that Redbridge and Totton do not appear to have direct train services between the two stations but I am open for correction.?
The weekly train serving Shippea Hill does not call at the next station Lakenheath..!!!!
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swt class 450
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Redbridge and Totton do actually have a direct train service. They have two southbound trains a day and one northbound train a day.
Bedhampton and Cosham have one eastbound Southern train a day (when it actually runs) but no westbound trains.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Let's allow the lovely Samantha to set the rules here!
Without definitions this thread is open to contradictory interpretation.
If Samantha wishes to step forward I will be delighted to see what she has to offer.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Though if they all run via Westbury rather than the avoiding line, the two do still qualify (if avoiding lines are allowed). A train could run non-stop between them without passing another station, but none do.
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Kite159
Veteran Member
On that basis you could include Dalton & Askam-in-Furness with the Barrow avoiding line
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
On that basis you could include Dalton & Askam-in-Furness with the Barrow avoiding line
Yes you could... indeed you could include Kirkstall Forge/Burley Park and Woodlesford via the Whitehall curve.
The first line of the thread reads: "I am just trying to make a list of all railway stations that are next to each other and have a railway line going between them but have no direct train services at all between the two stations despite being next to each other."
I read that as three questions:
1. Are the railway stations next to each other?
2. Do they have a railway line leading from one to the other?
3. Do they have a direct train service between them?
Q2 clearly indicates that we are looking for stations along the railway network and are not interested in those which are adjacent only by any other virtue (e.g. their respective station masters could easily lob bricks at each other).
Q1 I interpret as indicating that we would disallow any station pairing where any feasible travel from one to the other along the railway network requires that we pass through another station.
Thus I choose to interpret station pairs which meet both criteria set out in Q1 & Q2 as being those which have any route between them which doesn't pass through another station - not just the shortest route or the most logical. For these purposes I regard (and it is just my take on the issue) avoiding lines following significantly different alignments and avoiding an intermittent station as valid as avoiding that station (e.g. Westbury Avoiding Line), whilst stations which have fast (or other) lines which happen not to have platforms (e.g. Clapham High Street or Rugby or Salfords) are not avoided by such a routeing. I remain undecided about places like Darlington!
I also feel that station pairs should be 'inter-travellable', and therefore 'next to each other' iff (if and only if) an otherwise qualifying route does not involve reversal. The reason for this is that the scope for calling Kemble/Chippenham with reversal before Swindon platforms a valid station pair (under Q1 & Q2) is dependant on the length of the train and leads to discussion as to whether a miniscule pseudo-train is allowable etc etc. It is simply easier to disallow reversal.
Once a station pair has been identified then Q3 comes into play: is there a direct train service? For this to exist there needs to be at least one (currently) timetabled train which a passenger may use to travel from one station of the station pair to the other. The Opening Poster places no restriction on route and I would not wish to limit direct train services by debarring those which reverse in the course of the journey.
So two examples:
Pewsey/Frome are stations next to each other (immediate neighbours) due the possibility of travel between them without passing through an intermediate station (the valid route is via the Westbury Avoiding Line). The presence of a single public train which enables travel from Pewsey to Frome means that it doesn't meet the criteria.
However the valid pair Pewsey/Bruton (via Westbury & Frome avoiding Lines) has no linking service and thus meets all criteria.
Wetheral/Dalston are again 'immediate neighbours' thanks to the goods line to the south of Carlisle station (which I hope is still open) but the existence of Newcastle-Cumbrian Coast workings which call at both by reversal at Carlisle Station means that this station pair doesn't meet the criteria whilst Armathwaite/Dalston is a valid pair as they are both 'immediate neighbours' and have no single train which serves them both.
Whether Samantha agrees to my proposal (above) I've yet to discover.
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Kite159
Veteran Member
You make it sound like Shippea only gets 1 train a week, when it gets 6 trains a week towards Norwich and only 1 towards Ely, neither of which call at Lakenheath (but a fare is available from Lakenheath to Shippa Hill, involving a ~3 hour wait at Brandon)
But on that basis...
Shippea Hill & Manea via the Ely north curve
"but have no direct train services at all between the two stations despite being next to each other." quote from opening post.
They are indeed next to each other but I'd contend that saying that they have 'no direct train services at all between (them)' isn't the case as the South Shields to St James service stops at both and runs every 12 minutes even if it does go a long way round.
The whole problem lies in the wording the OP used in the initial question; it is friendly and chatty but also ambiguous. What does 'direct' mean? Why are the words 'at all' there at all?
So. You are probably right, I just don't agree with you on this one.
Others will not take my view on this, illustrating just how important it is to be clear about the question before trying to answer it.
swt class 450
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Sorry if it is causing any confusion. To clarify my question.
1. The two stations must be next to each other with no other stations in between (or at least no other stations in between on that line).
2. Their must be a direct line that goes between both of the stations.
3. So it must be possible for trains to stop at both stations even though they dont.
4. For example Dore & Totley - Dronfield and Catford - Catford Bridge and things like that would not count. But Lakenheath - Shippea Hill and Berwick Upon Tweed - Chathill and things like that would count.
Hopefully this will make it more clear.
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