Tyne Valley nows starts from Carlisle

[eezypeazy]

I've released an update to Tyne Valley for BVE 4.

The route now starts from Carlisle.

There are photorealistic representations of many of the buildings along the route.

There are TWELVE different drives, for four different trains, with starts from four different places, modelling most of the stopping patterns between Carlisle and Sunderland. Drive times vary between 12 minutes MetroCentre to Newcastle, to 1 hour 43 minutes for the full route. Take care - on some non-stop services, the long signalling blocks mean it's possible to get caught by the semaphores! And some of the speed limit irons are difficult to spot, too!

It's a big download... about 10Mb... and the download works OK in Firefox and IE 7 (although IE 7 took three clicks to work properly!).

This is the culmination of about two and a half years' worth of free time. In a project of this size, there's bound to be errors - drop me an email about them - and, like any modelling project, there's lots of things I'd like to do again, but hey, life's too short!

Cheers

eezypeazy

 

[1D53]

It looks superb - downloaded in FF no probs.

 

[Jordy]

Excellent stuff, downloading now, well done eezypeazy

Jordy

 

[dennis63uk]

I downloaded it and all i get is data error.. It will not install at all.


Took me 5 attempts to download it. Finally got it and installed it. Tried it with 32 bit graphics 1024 x 768 but kept crashing.. Had to revert to 16bit graphics for it.

 

[eezypeazy]

I downloaded it and all i get is data error.. It will not install at all.

Did it download properly? I have found that Internet Explorer doesn't always do it right first time.

It's about 10Mb, so if IE reports doing it very quickly, it hasn't done it succesfully.

However, Firefox always works right first time for me.

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[westcoaster]

just downloaded it and halfway through a pop up said a system reset test,tried it again and it worked, good route and graphics, the only problem is one of the trains on the metrocentre- sunderland route, the class one 156 the doors would not close, had to change train to try the route.

 

[dennis63uk]

I had same problem as westcoaster with the classone 156 doors wouldn't close.

 

[eezypeazy]

I'll check that one when I get home tonight...

eezypeazy

 

[1D53]

Apart from occasional drops in frame rate it is perfect. My only concern was coming past I think Haydon Bridge doing the 220 activity, you pass a distant with a green pass the station, round the corner and all of a sudden there is a semaphore at danger ahead, not even with an AWS warning. Had to smack into emergency and just made it!

 

[Coxster]

Been looking forward to this one for a while now - a nice non-fictional scenic line. Downloaded fine too, with a nice selection of diagrams.

 

[eezypeazy]

Apart from occasional drops in frame rate it is perfect. My only concern was coming past I think Haydon Bridge doing the 220 activity, you pass a distant with a green pass the station, round the corner and all of a sudden there is a semaphore at danger ahead, not even with an AWS warning. Had to smack into emergency and just made it!

I need to go back to the signalling diagrams I have and check out where the distant should be for that signal.... there are one or two others like that.... although I'm fairly sure I've done it "as is"...... I did say you could get caught by the semaphores!

Frame rate drops will occur in areas of high detail - Newcastle and Hexham in particular.

PS: And today, there are some HST sets diverting via Tyne Valley due to the fire at Drem....

eezypeazy

 

[The Snap]

Be looking forward to this.
As Damon said, it is nice to have a non-fictional line, especially one set in the north with semaphores. It's a nice long route too, so there is plenty of driving.

Well done eezypeazy

 

[Bill EWS]

Hi everyone,
I have spent some time today running the updated route files. Fantastic job. The textures and new scenery objects look great. Likewise, Newcastle station, what a great job it looks and feels just right. The new texture overlooking the Coaly Tyne' is very nice. But the whole approach from the new tunnel texture, more correct 30 mph run towards the station and the new platforms makes a great difference.

I took some liberty and didn't run complete routes but used the various routes so that I could check out the new scenery, stations etc. I started with the 37 freight and ran as far as Hexham to see the new extension. However, I ran past the starting signal at Haydon Bridge and wondered what mistake I made but continued on. I checked this out again with the HST run and sure enough, the signalling is not correct on the run up to Haydon Bridge! There is no 'yellow' distant signal, then you get a clear 'home' signal but then find the 'starter' (beyond the station) at red. The colour light signal prior to Haydon Bridge station needs to be a single yellow, with a 'buzzer' at the ramp so that the driver gets a warning to start braking and TPWS will attempt to stop you running past the starter signal. However, this may be a timetable tweak, as the train could be running a bit early and approaching the starter signal before it was cleared! However, I did stick to correct speeds with the HST run!

The problem is only with the 37 and HST run. The signalling gives a clear way with the stopping trains. The electric signal before Haydon Bridge needs to be at yellow, then the home signal should drop off as the train approaches. This gives the driver a 'warning' where he expects to find the next signal to still be at danger. It can then drop off as the train approaches or as the timetable dictates. Either this, or the timetable edited so that you always have clear signals, but it would be a shame to omit the realistic use of having a couple of signal checks on an othewrise booked none-stop run.

Other than that in all cases where I got a signal warning I found stopping very comfortable, proving that distance between a yellow and stop signal is good.

I also liked the new cuttings, rocky embankments and groups of housing here and there. The use of near photographic objects and massively increased texture makes this a real winner.

I also enjoyed the Newcastle to Sunderland run and find the updates fantastic. The run past Newcastle, over the bridge looks and runs very well. The scenery and the signalling is nice plus the Gateshead junction slightly more complete than previously.

I don't know the routes that well so can't say for sure if anything isn't really correct but I noticed a number of crossings that didn't have a whistle board. I don't mean the smaller 'farm' crossings but ones with a main road.
But, over all, this is a magnificent piece of work and congratulations are well in order. Both Carlisle and Newcastle stations feel right.

The 37 gave me frame rates in double figures (12-13 fps) while all the others were between 5-7 fps. Everything downloaded into their correct folders and I didn't get any 'lost' file notices while loading a route.

Our thanks must go to Eezypeezy for the fantastic time and effort he has put into this update, which must surely become as BVE classic.

Cheers.

BillEWS.

 

[eezypeazy]

Thank you all for your comments.

Re: MetroCentre (Derwenthaugh) doors won't close: I've not seen this happen before; it seems to occur because the .sta and .stop commands are at the same position. I've edited the two files, zipped them together and put them on my website here. I'd be grateful if some of you could download them, replace the existing ones, and let me know what happens.

Re: Haydon Bridge: Bill, I'll email you the signalling diagrams I've been working from separately, but I think you'll find that I've actually modelled what the diagrams (and my observations) say is there in reality! The signal following Haydon Bridge protects another very long signalling block, so on the non-stop runs it's almost inevitable that you'll "catch up" the train ahead. I'll see if my mate Tweedmouth South can help me clarify what's actually there....

Bill, your frame rates seem quite low. On "open country" sections (eg., between Wetheral and Brampton) I'm getting around 20fps, peaking in the high twenties. Frame rates only drop very low at Newcastle - for me, anyway.

Regards to all,

eezypeazy

 

[Bill EWS]

Hi eezypeezy,
Thanks for the diagram. The signals are as you visualised them from the diagram. But you cannot go from a starting signal to another such signal, i.e. in this case a 'Starter' without first having had a single yellow distant signal to the Home signal. Under this arrangement the 'start' signal would most likely be a 'spad' every time an HST or a non-stop freight ran through there!

I understand what you mean about the electric signal prior to Haydon Bridge but feel certain that this should be a 'distant' signal for Haydon Bridge Home signal. I'm sorry, but you can't have a Home Signal, semaphore or otherwise, without a distant warning signal. I have replied to your email with the diagram to try and explain it more fully.

Cheers.

BillEWS.

 

[1D53]

Absolutely Bill.
Before Hayden Bridge there is a colour distant signal showing green (clear), yet when rounding the corner there is a down semaphore showing danger (STOP!!).

The distant needs to be yellow (danger) to warn of the semaphore ahead.

 

[westcoaster]

downloaded the two edited files, and the two activities work fine now, the doors now close and the brakes release, didn't say yesterday but its a good route, well done.

 

[Tomnick]

Unfortunately I've not had chance to drive this route (in its latest form anyway!) yet, as I'm at uni with a less-than-ideal computer. What Bill's saying sounds exactly right though - there's got to be a distant signal between the section signal for one box and the home board for the next!

I don't know the signalling on that line too well though - if possible, Eezypeezy, could you send me the diagrams too? I sign absolute block as a signalman on the GC, so might be able to make some sense of what's going on!

 

[Coxster]

Tip for Bill - I too get 5 fps (if it decides to load) however if when BVE starts up I select "16 bit colour" I get in excess of 20/30 and there is no noticable effect on the scenery.

eezypeazy: Would you consider a map like the NWM route which shows the speed limit locations as some of the larger speed reductions in the route do not have warning boards which makes it hard to learn the route

 

[Dennis]

No point running in 32bit mode anyway is there, as the vast majority of textures are 8bit (256color) images?

 

[pedned]

I too have to run in 16 bit colour mode as even though the frame rates are reading around the 18 - 22 F.P.S mark the route jumps alot.

Also Damon's idea of having a map would be very good, as you could the speed limits and could see where you need to slow down before you're flying through a 40 limit at 60.


Jamie Course

 

[eezypeazy]

Thanks for the feedback.

I tried switching mine fro 32 to 16 bit mode, but it made no difference at all.

The jumping occurs when very large objects (ie., with many faces) are loaded 600m ahead of you - usually these are the larger stations (Newcastle and Hexham come to mind - and, of course, it also happens on the approach to Birmingham NS in that route).

Re signalling, I've been corresponding with Bill EWS and have modified the HST run appropriately.... with a bit of luck, I'll publish a patch in the next few days.

Re speed limits - those with large changes have AWS before them; the "iron" signs usually don't have large changes... and I think keeping your eyes peeled for them is part of the fun of the drive!

Cheers

eezypeazy

 

[dennis63uk]

Got the same problem with the signalling when driving the 220 as well. As had to slam on emergency brakes

 

[Bill EWS]

Hi Coxter,
Thanks for the info. I was already in 16 bit mode due to finding the new BVE4 trains and larger route files creating low frame rates. I have given my hard drive a good clear-out and with a fresh boot up and closing all possible programmes, including the Virus Checker and Firewall but frame rates haven't improved a bit. I have considered increasing the computer memory but haven't got around to it. I will have to give this more serious thought.

The slow frame rates is the only thing that spoils BVE4 for me. The best I get with the newer trains is with the likes of the 37, 156 and 153, they get into the middle to higher 20's and even up to plus 40 in the tunnels. Don't know where to go from here!

As Eezypeezy is getting good frame rates I had hoped for the same but it looks as if it is the set-up that is the problem.

In regards the signalling at Haydon Road (Tyne Valley) Ezzeepeezy has done a nice job on improving things. You now get a yellow distant signal and the starter signal comes off aprox. 30 seconds after coming to a stand. The only problem to sort out is having the Starter signal also clear as the train approaches, rather than both signals clearing at the same time. He is working on this.

It seems that the 'single' stop semaphore at the crossing is correct. It is operated by the crossing keeper. I remember this type of signalling but have never worked under them, that I recall. I am really surprised to find that they are still in use on the railway today!

I would think that the signal is only set at 'danger' when the crossing is required, after discussions with the signal box and that no train is ever likely to actually approach this signal while,the crossing is in use, but is an added safeguard. It is possible that there may be an interlock or electric lock with the signalbox starter to stop that being cleared accidentally. Under all normal circumstances the crossing signal would be in the 'clear' position.

Here's to Ezzepeezy's further improvements to Tyne Valley.

Cheers.

BillEWS.

 

[eezypeazy]

Bill has rightly described the work I'm doing right now.

Over on another forum, Simon G has posted this:

Anyone building a prototype route should check out this website:

http://www.omnieng.co.uk/railspatial

See the site for details, but in brief, it gives you track alignment with the ability to click on any point and pop up the mileage, some engineering info and a video frame taken at the selected spot.

The limitations I found in a very quick look were:
- I had to run it on IE to see the information popups (they don't work on Mozilla)
- the video stills are occasionally unobtainable; whether this is because some points are not covered or because of server load I don't know
- it only appears to cover running lines and loops: sidings are not shown, at least on the bit I looked at.


Now, on using this site, I can see that I've modelled almost exactly what's on the ground!

Cheers

eezypeazy

 

[Tom B]

*notices*

Oooh. Something for the weekend!

 

[Boxcars]

Terrific route Eezypeazy but my computer won't let me enjoy it like it's meant to be enjoyed. It's too demanding for my integrated graphics and my fps are also around 5-7 only. Not much I can do really at the moment.

 

[eezypeazy]

You have my sympathies, Boxcars... presumably you get similar (or worse) frame rates on NWM and Bham X City?

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[Boxcars]

You have my sympathies, Boxcars... presumably you get similar (or worse) frame rates on NWM and Bham X City?

Regards

eezypeazy

Funny you should ask that Eezypeazy. On NWM I get similar fps (5-9 and 14 in tunnels) (driving the HST) but on Bham X City South I get 11-14 (driving the 323) dropping to 5 at BNS. My most enjoyable route in BVE4 (FPS WISE) is the Clarendon.

I still enjoy fps of 29-30 (with SiS650 integrated graphics) on some of my favourite BVE 2.6.3 routes and tend to live in the past !!!

 

[Dennis]

I think the continuously low FPS being experienced is most probably down to a shortage of free memory (RAM); whereas loading all the Clarendon objects takes up about 120Mb, the TV objects takes about 400Mb; haven't checked XCS or NWM.

On my laptop with 1Gb, I'm left with only 100Mb of available memory after loading TV, so not much spare (about 400Mb being used for Wincrap!!). No doubt there is a critical amount below which frame rates will end up being intolerably low (without really knowing the machinations of how a PC works, I would hazard a guess that the HD is used as 'virtual' RAM which would result in incessant disc activity when driving the route).

Shutting down unused programs may help and it might be worth checking the available system resources.

Also, it is conceivable that the use of B3D format for the objects doesn't help framerates - I have previously been lead to believe CSV and more particularly .X format objects are quicker drawing; never been able to validate this for definite but from experience I'm not sure that it is true - the most serious drop-offs in frame rate in my experience tending to be dependent on the number of faces being drawn rather than the object file format. Changing background (when the images are large) and large sound files also seem to cause temporary frame rate drops.