UK General Election 2024

[alex397]

I bet they'll promise to bring back capital punishment next week.

Probably including public hanging. Cleverly will make a statement saying it’s a good idea to get the public together outside, especially the woke youth, to get them away from the “digital bubble”.

 

[deltic]

The focus group asked a random selection of (seventy year-old Conservative) voters (in Tunbridge Wells). They got 95% approval for the policy (as opposed to the alternative of being ritually disembowelled in the soft furnishings department of John Lewis. The other 5% (one in twenty) replied, “No, thank you. I had one but the wheels fell off.”)

Opinion polls show there is actually majority support for some type of National Service as long as its not compulsory, see, for example, https://www.ukonward.com/reports/great-british-national-service/. In effect the Tories are trying to relaunch David Cameron's Big Society idea which never got anywhere.

New opinion polling commissioned by Onward shows that 57% of British people support national service versus 19% who oppose it. The most popular model included civil and military activities, with 53% more likely to support such a mixed programme. Crucially, three times as many young people support the idea than oppose it. But the majority of people oppose a mandatory scheme, including nearly two-thirds of young people.

 

[Fermiboson]

Opinion polls show there is actually majority support for some type of National Service as long as its not compulsory, see, for example, https://www.ukonward.com/reports/great-british-national-service/. In effect the Tories are trying to relaunch David Cameron's Big Society idea which never got anywhere.

I‘m sure the majority of people would like someone else to do work for them for free, as long as they aren’t forced to do it in turn.

 

[gg1]

Opinion polls show there is actually majority support for some type of National Service as long as its not compulsory, see, for example, https://www.ukonward.com/reports/great-british-national-service/. In effect the Tories are trying to relaunch David Cameron's Big Society idea which never got anywhere.

A right wing think tank closely linked to the Tory party conducts polling which strangely enough says exactly what their masters want to hear.

 

[xtmw]

The Home Sec has said there won't be any fines/jail time for those who refuse National Service...

 

[SteveM70]

The Home Sec has said there won't be any fines/jail time for those who refuse National Service...

As Cleverly said this morning, people will be compelled to do it but it isn’t compulsory

These people shouldn’t be allowed to operate power tools, let alone run the country

 

[Fermiboson]

Are not the words compel and compulsory literally from the same root word?

 

[birchesgreen]

As Cleverly said this morning, people will be compelled to do it but it isn’t compulsory

These people shouldn’t be allowed to operate power tools, let alone run the country

He didn't answer when pushed on how exactly people would be compelled.

 

[najaB]

Yes, I'd happily let a disaffected unmotivated 18 year old loose with a load of prescription drugs, and I'd love one to have access to my frail parents' home

Time to invest in companies that do background checks!

Are not the words compel and compulsory literally from the same root word?

Hence my earlier brain freeze.

 

[The Ham]

As Cleverly said this morning, people will be compelled to do it but it isn’t compulsory

These people shouldn’t be allowed to operate power tools, let alone run the country

So whilst it wont be compulsory (If something is compulsory, you must do it because of a rule or law) it will be that people are compelled (having to do something, because you are forced to).

So no rule or law, but only being forced to, still sounds fairly much like it'll be hard to get out of.

 

[ComUtoR]

Are not the words compel and compulsory literally from the same root word?

What is the root word ?

 

[gg1]

So whilst it wont be compulsory (If something is compulsory, you must do it because of a rule or law) it will be that people are compelled (having to do something, because you are forced to).

So no rule or law, but only being forced to, still sounds fairly much like it'll be hard to get out of.

Which actually sounds far more sinister than simply being compulsory.

I'm definitely leaning towards the suggestion earlier in the thread that the Tories are actively trying to lose the election.

 

[deltic]

As Cleverly said this morning, people will be compelled to do it but it isn’t compulsory

These people shouldn’t be allowed to operate power tools, let alone run the country

It is the military element that will not be compulsory

 

[Yew]

Opinion polls show there is actually majority support for some type of National Service as long as its not compulsory, see, for example, https://www.ukonward.com/reports/great-british-national-service/. In effect the Tories are trying to relaunch David Cameron's Big Society idea which never got anywhere.

I feel that usually, when national service is proposed, one of the key facets is the mandatory nature of it.

 

[jfollows]

What is the root word ?

See https://www.etymonline.com/word/compulsory

compulsory (adj.)​

1580s, "obligatory, arising from compulsion, done under compulsion," from Medieval Latin compulsorius, from Latin compulsus, past participle of compellere "to drive together, force," from com "with, together" (see com-) + pellere "to drive" (from PIE root *pel- (5) "to thrust, strike, drive"). As "coercive, exercising compulsion" from 1630s. As a noun from 1510s, originally "a compulsory means."

 

[SteveM70]

It is the military element that will not be compulsory

I’m merely quoting what the Home Secretary said. If it’s wrong, then he was misinformed of his own Government’s policy

 

[ComUtoR]

See https://www.etymonline.com/word/compulsory

Ta

 

[deltic]

I’m merely quoting what the Home Secretary said. If it’s wrong, then he was misinformed of his own Government’s policy

Given that a minister ruled out national service in a written answer to a parliamentary question the day before it was announced, I think it's fair to say most ministers don't know what Rishi is doing

 

[edwin_m]

Additionally it's a fallacy of the right that virtually everyone who did national service thought it was worthwhile. My late father considered it a complete waste of 18 months of his life, and anecdotally that wasn't an uncommon viewpoint at the time.

I believe the target demographic here is not the surviving octogenerians who actually did National Service, but the somewhat younger cohort who heard people saying that society was much better before it was abolished. If indeed they have thought through it that far.

The Home Sec has said there won't be any fines/jail time for those who refuse National Service...

Just time in a barracks instead?

 

[SteveM70]

Maybe if people don’t do it they’ll be sentenced to community service?

 

[najaB]

Maybe if people don’t do it they’ll be sentenced to community service?

Good one!

 

[Fermiboson]

I wonder what exceptions they plan to put in place for conscientious objectors.

 

[Gloster]

I wonder what exceptions they plan to put in place for conscientious objectors.

Well, conscientious objectors, who were those who did not want to be put in the position of possibly being required to kill someone, were usually offered a role which did support the war effort, but did not involve taking up arms. Some of these jobs could be dangerous, including that of front-line stretcher bearer. So they would just do the community service. Although there were those who would not take any part in the war, mostly in World War I, and were appallingly treated, they were few. This would only leave (with this proposal) those who don’t want to take part in any form of service, but want to make an issue of it, rather than just not turning up.

 

[muz379]

The BBC are now quoting examples of the community service the Tories apparently have in mind - delivering meals to the elderly and delivering prescriptions.

Yes, I'd happily let a disaffected unmotivated 18 year old loose with a load of prescription drugs, and I'd love one to have access to my frail parents' home

Its giving the energy of that time they launched a scheme to get "low level offenders" on day release to drive lorries to help with the national shortage .

Only the guy that was featured in the news report with Dominic Raab was on day release for drug smuggling offences involving a lorry

 

[sor]

A right wing think tank closely linked to the Tory party conducts polling which strangely enough says exactly what their masters want to hear.

specifically - one of its head honchos is assumed to be on the look out for a safe tory seat (what passes for safe these days) to the point that there's a meme twitter account

 

[DoubleLemon]

According to the Express (I didn't click the link just came up in a search) "Nigel Farage blasts Rishi Sunak's pledge to bring back national service …"

You can search for the link if you want. I won't give them any Google rank by including a link.

 

[HSTEd]

He didn't answer when pushed on how exactly people would be compelled.

Well based on the coronavirus experience, they will be unable to take part in most social occasions and use of transport unless they "volunteer".

This is supposedly not compulsion.

I wonder what exceptions they plan to put in place for conscientious objectors.

Well they would be sent to the civilian forced labour detachments instead of the Army.

 

[spyinthesky]

I believe the target demographic here is not the surviving octogenerians who actually did National Service, but the somewhat younger cohort who heard people saying that society was much better before it was abolished. If indeed they have thought through it that far.

Just time in a barracks instead?

I am not sure we have any spare barracks anymore.

 

[Hadders]

Edit - I stayed up all night to watch the results come in during the 1997 election and I haven’t done it since because I had a reasonable idea of how things were going to go.

I think I will take the Friday off to watch this unfold through as it’s going to be quite an interesting night I reckon.

I stayed up all night in 1997 as well - the 'Portillo Moment' was surreal.

The road I was living on at the time had a Conservative Club at one end and a Labour Club at the other. I had arranged a late shift at work the day after and went to work mid-afternoon (after a few hours sleep). The Conservative Club was locked up meanwhile the party was still in full flow at the Labour Club!

Happy days!

 

[Snow1964]

I am not sure we have any spare barracks anymore.

We don't, apparently back in 1950s was around 300,000 that joined National service each year (was normally 2 years).

I have heard military could only train about tenth of that number (30,000) max in a year nowadays.