UKIP: Do they have a future?

[KN1]

But the fact of the matter is, most niqabs are worn by choice in the UK. That's the individual's choice in the matter, and one which should be respected.

I would still prefer not to see them.

Can you provide evidence to back that up ?

 

[AlterEgo]

Can you provide evidence to back that up ?

Can you provide evidence to back your claims up?

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's fascinating how these debates always focus on the niqab and the burka, both of which are unusual garments, even in the most orthodox of Islamic families. The hijab is much more common, and anyone who tries to claim it is any different to the "babushka" in the Orthodox Christian church or the tichel in Judaism is an idiot.

It's also fascinating how these people seemingly don't mind that Sikh people are exempt from having to wear, among other things, motorcycle helmets and construction hard hats if they wear a turban.

Personally, I always think live and let live. If someone wants to wear the niqab, let them.

 

[Butts]

I disagree, which is why I suggested wearing an SS uniform in Stamford Hill (among many other situations) would be completely inappropriate. It's why political correctness will never replace good manners as the arbiter of good sense on such matters. The more people push the limits, the more likely laws will be introduced.

Unless you were campaigning for UKIP ?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A pollution mask obviously serves a specific purpose and doesn't cover the entire face.

I gave the example of a pollution mask in response to your comment:

There really is no rational argument for wearing any sort of face mask in a civilised society.

Would you accept that pollution-protection does constitute a rational argument for wearing a face-mask, and that therefore your previous 'no rational argument' comment was not correct?

By the way, if I'm cycling in London, I often wear a pollution mask AND wrap-around sunglasses - the latter to protect my eyes from dust/particulates, with uv-protection as an added bonus. Between the mask and the sunglasses, my entire face is pretty much covered. Does that change the argument in your mind?

For what it's worth, I'm undecided on the whole issue of the Burqa/niqab, as I think there are some reasonable arguments on both sides, but I think my own example shows it's a complex issue, because there clearly are legitimate reasons to cover your face in many situations. So simplistic statements along the lines of 'no rational argument for wearing any sort of face mask' don't really help.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The lack of religious tolerance from some forum members makes me feel sad. To be honest I would feel far more threatened by a nasty looking C of E bloke in Eltham then I ever would by a Muslim lady who chooses to cover her face.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Is there a full list of these British ways I have to live my life?

 

[Antman]

The lack of religious tolerance from some forum members makes me feel sad. To be honest I would feel far more threatened by a nasty looking C of E bloke in Eltham then I ever would by a Muslim lady who chooses to cover her face.

But how do you know that it is a Muslim lady and not the nasty looking C of E bloke that you fear behind the mask?

And doesn't your statement show a complete lack of religious tolerance?

 

[Antman]

I gave the example of a pollution mask in response to your comment:



Would you accept that pollution-protection does constitute a rational argument for wearing a face-mask, and that therefore your previous 'no rational argument' comment was not correct?

By the way, if I'm cycling in London, I often wear a pollution mask AND wrap-around sunglasses - the latter to protect my eyes from dust/particulates, with uv-protection as an added bonus. Between the mask and the sunglasses, my entire face is pretty much covered. Does that change the argument in your mind?

For what it's worth, I'm undecided on the whole issue of the Burqa/niqab, as I think there are some reasonable arguments on both sides, but I think my own example shows it's a complex issue, because there clearly are legitimate reasons to cover your face in many situations. So simplistic statements along the lines of 'no rational argument for wearing any sort of face mask' don't really help.

A degree of common sense obviously has to be applied, a fireman wearing breathing apparatus for example.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But how do you know that it is a Muslim lady and not the nasty looking C of E bloke that you fear behind the mask?

I know the difference between a nasty looking bloke from Eltham and a Muslim lady. And I suspect you do too, irrespective of whether their face is hidden.

 

[EM2]

And doesn't your statement show a complete lack of religious tolerance?

How do you work that out? He says he feels more threatened by a nasty-looking CoE bloke, not that all CoE males are threatening.
For what it's worth, for the nine years I lived in a London borough that is 29% white British, I was only ever abused, threatened and attacked by white British males.

 

[RichmondCommu]

And doesn't your statement show a complete lack of religious tolerance?

No not at all. I have complete respect for all religions but I have no respect for nasty looking blokes from Eltham, who no doubt claim to be C of E.

 

[Antman]

I know the difference between a nasty looking bloke from Eltham and a Muslim lady. And I suspect you do too, irrespective of whether their face is hidden.

Not if they're wearing a mask I don't.

And you haven't answered my question about your lack of religious tolerance.

 

[Antman]

How do you work that out? He says he feels more threatened by a nasty-looking CoE bloke, not that all CoE males are threatening.
For what it's worth, for the nine years I lived in a London borough that is 29% white British, I was only ever abused, threatened and attacked by white British males.

Which has nothing to do with people feeling the need to hide their face.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

No not at all. I have complete respect for all religions but I have no respect for nasty looking blokes from Eltham, who no doubt claim to be C of E.

*feels relieved that I'm not from Eltham*

 

[EM2]

[/B]
Which has nothing to do with people feeling the need to hide their face.

Indeed it does not. So why do you have an issue with anyone that wants to?

 

[Antman]

Indeed it does not. So why do you have an issue with anyone that wants to?

For the last time.............I couldn't care less what anybody wears but there is an obvious security risk if people are allowed to hide their face, surely that is obvious?

 

[EM2]

For the last time.............I couldn't care less what anybody wears but there is an obvious security risk if people are allowed to hide their face, surely that is obvious?

Bank robbers used to obscure their faces with stockings. Shall we ban them too?
If you couldn't care less what anybody wears, then you should have no issue with anyone covering their face.

 

[Antman]

Bank robbers used to obscure their faces with stockings. Shall we ban them too?
If you couldn't care less what anybody wears, then you should have no issue with anyone covering their face.

We've already covered that!

Is there really any point repeating the same thing ad nauseam?

 

[EM2]

Is there really any point repeating the same thing ad nauseam?

Let's break it down into simple steps.
No valid reason for anyone to cover their face in a civilized society - disproved.
Following on from that:
Covering the face with one particular thing - a security risk, so that particular thing should be banned.
Covering the face with another particular thing - not a security risk, so those particular things need not be banned.
Don't care less what anyone wears.
They shouldn't be allowed to wear that.

Have I missed anything?

 

[Antman]

Let's break it down into simple steps.
No valid reason for anyone to cover their face in a civilized society - disproved.
Following on from that:
Covering the face with one particular thing - a security risk, so that particular thing should be banned.
Covering the face with another particular thing - not a security risk, so those particular things need not be banned.
Don't care less what anyone wears.
They shouldn't be allowed to wear that.

Have I missed anything?

I really haven't got a clue what you are wittering on about.

When in a hole stop digging perhaps?

 

[EM2]

I really haven't got a clue what you are wittering on about.

When in a hole stop digging perhaps?

Well, they're all things you've stated over the last few pages, so if you really haven't got a clue, how are the rest of us supposed to know?!

 

[Antman]

Well, they're all things you've stated over the last few pages, so if you really haven't got a clue, how are the rest of us supposed to know?!

The rest of us? It seems to be only you that is having difficulty?

 

[RichmondCommu]

And you haven't answered my question about your lack of religious tolerance.

I'm not religious intolerant. I just refuse to tolerate nasty aggressive people, some of whom happen to grunt that they are C of E.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not if they're wearing a mask I don't.

Eh? So you can't tell the difference between a man and a women?

 

[RichmondCommu]

*feels relieved that I'm not from Eltham*

On your previous avatar you didn't look like a nasty looking bloke to me

 

[DynamicSpirit]

On your previous avatar you didn't look like a nasty looking bloke to me

Ah, thanks.

Do you think it'll be OK if I change my avatar to show a more up-to-date photo of me then?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Ah, thanks.

Do you think it'll be OK if I change my avatar to show a more up-to-date photo of me then?

If you're single (and I have no idea whether you are or not) you might have some difficulty in finding a mate!

 

[Antman]

I'm not religious intolerant. I just refuse to tolerate nasty aggressive people, some of whom happen to grunt that they are C of E.

Why couldn't you have just said a nasty bloke? Why did he have to be C of E and come from Eltham?

 

[Antman]

Eh? So you can't tell the difference between a man and a women?

Probably not if they're wearing a mask:roll:!