Understanding Spotting and Enthusiasts

[miami84]

The chaps at Doncaster station seem to be a well organised bunch. They appear to even have their own benches. I was stood near platform 4 and some old bit of freight rumbled by and the excitement was palpable!

 

[sprinterguy]

One related question I have often wondered. Whilst one sees enthusiasts at lots of stations, there regularly seems to be a particular number at Doncaster. Why is that?

It's a hub of freight activity. There's a fairly high frequency (and variety) of rail traffic through the station in general.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The chaps at Doncaster station seem to be a well organised bunch. They appear to even have their own benches. I was stood near platform 4 and some old bit of freight rumbled by and the excitement was palpable!

I suspect they have a rota to cover the station 24/7.

To be fair - we had some at Watford Jct in my day - they were no trouble - would slam carriage doors , occasionally give perfect train information to the public and one spotted a problem with a wagon on a passing freight train which was passed onto the signal box and dealt with appropriately.

All "interests" have obsessives - I gather one bloke visits all Zoo's in the UK and Europe....

 

[Andyh82]

I have to say I'm never sure what the point is of noting down numbers for absolutely no reason.

If it is noting down numbers to compile a list of vehicles in a new livery, or moved to a new depot or operator, or to try and work out service allocations or diagrams, I can see a point, but just writing down that you've seen a load of trains once is not for me.

The behaviour of some enthusiasts is cringeworthy though, from a bus point of view, I don't go to as many bus rallies as I used to, because the sort of people you see makes you question your hobby and often reinforces all the negative stereotypes that I try to get away from.

 

[Bevan Price]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

I can understand being interested in the infrastructure and how it all works and also interested in the engineering of steam trains but the others to be fair I am at a loss what the attraction is. Please don't take this as a wee wee take I see a lot of spotters and am just trying to understand why they do it?

Reply from a steam era enthusiast:
1. It was generally an indication that a steam loco was working hard.
2. They make locos work hard.
3. Because there was a lot more variety, and trains were oftrn more comfortable than modern trains.
4 (and 10) . It becomes a bit of a challenge, to "get" everything that is available. No longer go out of my way to spot numbers, but will note anything I have not seen before

"Collection" activity applies to a lot of others activities, e,g.:
How many different beers / pubs you can sample ?.
How many fish can you catch (and is is worth standing in the middle of a stream for hours) ?
How many different types of bird can you see each year ?
Can you get a complete set of stamp issues for specified countries ?
(For some young men) - how many different girls can you "have" ? etc. etc.

5. No idea.
6. Pointless if you cannot see where you are going.
7. I don't.
8. Put some on a website.
9. Never.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I don't think it's any secret that railways are of particular appeal to those with autistic spectrum disorders - the patterns and numbers involved with railways (and indeed buses) are of great appeal - and thus some of the behaviours of such enthusiasts might look unusual to the casual observer.

I didn't want to say this but taking numbers and having them in an orderly fashion (such as in a spotter's book) is one hallmark of autistic spectrum disorders and it is generally a harmless hobby.

The only problem I have is that some enthusiasts who, especially on steam charters etc, put themselves and others' lives in danger by being too close to the edge of the platform or walking off the end to get "that photo". They are all falling over themselves and generally causing a nuisance (note I said some...). This gives a bad name to "spotting" and it is no wonder that some station staff can be a little jumpy.

 

[3141]

I think it's clear from the replies so far that not all "spotters and enthusiasts" do all of the things you listed. I wasn't aware that people used the terms hellfire and lordz.

Actually I think some of the things on your list would only be done by nutters. (Hey - did you know the politically correct spellchecker on here doesn't recognise "nutters"? Something ironic about that.) But there are some things there that I do and I have to accept that some people would apply the term "nutter" to me.

As for dwelling on the past - there were some nice and interesting things about it that I wish I'd involved myself in to a greater extent while they were around. At the age of 75 I've got quite a bit of past. But I try not to dwell on it too much because not all of it was brilliant and anyway here is now, or now is here, or something like that.

 

[Robertj21a]

Surely it's little different to most hobbies ?

Why do people go fishing - and then throw the fish back in ?

Why do people go to watch 11 men try to kick a ball between two posts ?

Why do people buy a telescope to gaze into the sky ?

 

[noddy1878]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

1 and 2 are linked, but as others have said it puts the loco to work and can sound great.


3. Why do you dwell on the past?

I guess there was more variety around in the past and different things to see. I understand though that things move on look to the future too.

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

The challenge

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

Dont do this.

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

Not sure about the dark. I understand people going for new track

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

Dont do this.

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

Upload them to flickr. Some photos are perhaps not that exciting but others are of things that may not happen again.

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

Dont do this.

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

So I can see what I have left to do see point 4.

I'm a rail enthusiast but I go about doing what I enjoy without drawing attention to myself. Some of the stuff I see is embarrassing. I like to understand how things work and explore new areas by train.I don't go after buses or planes. I think my enjoyment of railways stems from great grandad and great uncle (who is still alive) working for the GWR.

Also like some people have said, some people collect like stamps, bird watching etc Everyone is different. What I don't agree with is people who are dangerous about anything they do.

 

[Robert Taggart]

...I am trying to understand ... why they do it?

DITTO !
For this age old anorak (not old enough to remember 'kettles' though !) the 'mainline' rail scene of toady be nowhere near as interesting as it was in the '70's and '80's or even (albeit with much effort) the '90's.
Yes, all the trains looked the same then (livery wise), but, the variety of shapes, sizes and sounds - particularly regarding diesel locomotive hauled trains - was 'intoxicating' !
Now ? - BORING (IMHO!) - units, units, units + sheds, sheds, sheds !
This, together with the minefield of ticketing, means oneself rarely takes to the rails now. When one does the lack of interest can be positively mind numbing - so not travelling often does not bring with it withdrawal symptoms - those aspects of 'anorakery' which were of interest having themselves been withdrawn ! :cry:

 

[6Gman]

Doesn't anyone shout out "Cop" any more? (and it doesn't refer to a policeman).

Yes, I do. And 'Track' when appropriate!

Actually, I don't usually shout, just say it to my travelling companion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think it's any secret that railways are of particular appeal to those with autistic spectrum disorders - the patterns and numbers involved with railways (and indeed buses) are of great appeal - and thus some of the behaviours of such enthusiasts might look unusual to the casual observer.

I was bus-spotting in Liverpool last week when a passenger (male)noticed me, and seemed terribly agitated. He was so excited that he made various gestures in my direction of - shall we say - a rather deprecatory manner.

And I thought of the most brilliant response.

Yes, I may be a saddo. But I've got £100k in the bank. Have you?

And I don't look like a monkey.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I once came across a bloke collecting wagon numbers ...

I used to do this at 3 am - with a TOPS list - hated it - but I got paid for it !

 

[tjlrailblue]

I really don't like terms like clag thrash hellfire cop and such like!

but having said that every hobby develops its own language - jargon, clichés, abbreviations etc just listen to football radio phone ins!

there are so many aspects to railways and railway enthusiasm it's a great hobby!

Tim

 

[RichmondCommu]

When I was a spotter in the 1970's and 80's no one I knew bothered with units as there were so many locos running around the network. As a none spotter looking in, the railway seems to be rather boring place now and I do wonder why people bother.

 

[theblackwatch]

I have one question. Why do some enthusiasts have no concept of safety? There was a train from West Coast Railways that came through Colchester station the other day which was all old coaches (same ones that you see on preserved line) which had no CDL. The train hadn't even stopped and people were opening the doors and getting off!

Did you ever travel around London in the 1980s or 1990s? At London Bridge in the rush hour, several people would have alighted from every door of a 4-VEP or EPB (that's a train with a door at every seating bay) before the unit stopped. And a load more would get on after it had set off for Cannon Street. There was no point the train waiting till all the doors had shut - it would have been there till the end of the peak! I don't recall that anyone died....

 

[RichmondCommu]

I once came across a bloke collecting wagon numbers ...

I used to do this at 3 am - with a TOPS list - hated it - but I got paid for it !

Even with a torch given the inevitable filthy state of the wagons I'm amazed that you were able to see the numbers!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Did you ever travel around London in the 1980s or 1990s?

Leaving a train before it was completely stationary is something of a traditional skill for commuters dating back decades. Before dieselisation and electrification, suburban services were operated with slam doors to each seating bay. London Transport with the exception of the stock that worked to Watford and Aylesbury had used sliding doors since the 1920s, but British Railways was slow to catch on with much of the diesel and electric stock built in the 1950s and 1960s perpetuating the old designs. Although there was an inside door release, it was easier to drop the window and release the door from the outside. That was a design feature of the 1970s HSTs which is still present, is it not?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Did you ever travel around London in the 1980s or 1990s? At London Bridge in the rush hour, several people would have alighted from every door of a 4-VEP or EPB (that's a train with a door at every seating bay) before the unit stopped. And a load more would get on after it had set off for Cannon Street. There was no point the train waiting till all the doors had shut - it would have been there till the end of the peak! I don't recall that anyone died....

No but that's not to say that the practice wasn't down right dangerous, which to be honest it was. In my experience very few if any commuters that are still around miss the slammers.

 

[richa2002]

No but that's not to say that the practice wasn't down right dangerous, which to be honest it was. In my experience very few if any commuters that are still around miss the slammers.

Can't have been that dangerous though if it happened on a daily basis with minimal fuss. There's a big difference between perceived danger/risk and actual danger/risk.

It's a bit like sticking your head out of a moving train which on the face of it, seems extremely dangerous. In reality, it rarely results in any meaningful injury.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Can't have been that dangerous though if it happened on a daily basis with minimal fuss. There's a big difference between perceived danger/risk and actual danger/risk.

It's a bit like sticking your head out of a moving train which on the face of it, seems extremely dangerous. In reality, it rarely results in any meaningful injury.

Being smacked in the face by an opening door or miss timing your step off the train and consequently falling to the floor certainly resulted in injury.

And why would you want to stick your head out of a moving train unless you wanted to open the window in order to open the door?

 

[37038]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

I can understand being interested in the infrastructure and how it all works and also interested in the engineering of steam trains but the others to be fair I am at a loss what the attraction is. Please don't take this as a wee wee take I see a lot of spotters and am just trying to understand why they do it?

I'll have a spadge at answering this then...

1. Visual indication of a hard working locomotive. Apart from the weird spotter types, many follow specific types of traction which they find appeal to them the most and so enjoy seeing the locos given a good workout.

2. Its harder to cycle up a hill than on the flat. Same applies to a train going up a gradient. Generally links to point 1 in the fact that you get more noise from the loco.

3. Nostalgia basically. Most consider the railways of 20+ years ago to be much more interesting than the plastic infested railways of today. Although heritage traction is much more interesting in 2014/2015 than it was only 5+ years ago!

4. Sort of links to the list making mentality of spotters in general. Those who appreciate a particular class may want to experience each of the locomotives. They may have a few favourites which are 'louder' than other locomotives. Good analogy is that of those music fans which appreciate a particular genre of music and yet follow bands within the genre all over the place.

5. There isn't an attraction among most people within the hobby. Some sad individuals which thinks horn blowing makes thing more appealing in their videos. Can usually tell which people they are by their up/down arm action on stations. Usually find they'll have anoraks and sweaty cheese sarnies as well! Youtube videos will also usually have some kind of reference to tones.

6. I personally am aiming to travel over all the lines in the UK. Part of me just because I want to but another part of me wants to see as much of the UK as possible. I try to avoid travelling over new lines in the dark if I can but sometimes it can't be helped, especially in the short daylight hours of the winter.

7. Do people do that? I usually smile if I see something that is actually worth getting up for. As some would say, "rateable traction".

8. Some on the internet but some simply get stored away.

9. A way of expressing appreciation for a certain locomotive usually.

10. That list mentality again. Similar to travelling over every line is seeing every locomotive or unit in the UK. Bus/Plane and indeed bird spotters do similar.

Thanks

 

[pne]

Doesn't anyone shout out "Cop" any more? (and it doesn't refer to a policeman).

Yes, I do. And 'Track' when appropriate!

Actually, I don't usually shout, just say it to my travelling companion.

What do "cop" and "track" mean, in this context?

And "hellfire" and "my lordz", for that matter?

Is there a list of such jargon words, with definitions?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Even with a torch given the inevitable filthy state of the wagons I'm amazed that you were able to see the numbers!

Standard equipment being a Bardic lamp, and a clipboad with the print outs on.

(known as "train preperation" duties)

 

[Ash Bridge]

What do "cop" and "track" mean, in this context?

And "hellfire" and "my lordz", for that matter?

Is there a list of such jargon words, with definitions?

I think the meaning of "cop" is to see or spot a specific locomotive or multiple unit type train number you've never seen before, to add to you're spotting book records. Track I assume is to travel over railway track that you have never travelled over previously, not necessarily a new route, but could be just a new loop or platform or freight/goods lines etc. "Hellfire" is a term used to describe the sound and exhaust emission of a (usually) first or second generation diesel electric or hydraulic locomotive under power. Sorry, but needs someone more youthful than I to explain the last term

 

[21C101]

A bit controversial but I am trying to understand some of the actions of spotters and enthusiasts below is a list of observations from a rail staffs point of view who isn't a spotter:

1. Why are enthusiasts excited by trains that spew out copious amounts of smoke and fumes when it is clearly bad for the environment?

A: Because they are at the core, a fire, and man has been fascinated by fire since the dawn of time.

2. What is the attraction of steep gradients?

The engines have to work very hard and often struggle to get up them so it is a feat comparible with man climbing a mountain and often needs great skill by the driver to get to the top.

3. Why do you dwell on the past?

Compare St Pancras with Euston. Its not difficult to come to the conclusion that the modern world is graceless and soulless, in the past even humble industrial buildings and locos were intended to be a work of art, not just a functional shell.

4. What is the point in being hauled by a different loco within the same class?

Because with steam engine technology as built then each one had slightly different characteristics, just like different horses of the same breed do

5. What is the attraction to the drivers sounding the horn and doing the up and down movement of ones arm?

If I'm on a station and the driver blows up, thats instinctively what I do. Not because I'm a crank, but because I'm a professional railwayman and trained to acknowledge the driver warning me of the locos presence.

6. What is the attraction of travelling over a length of line for the first time in the dark?

Stumped on this one, but if you are on a mission to cover every last bit of track it dosent matter whether you can see out or not. May seem absurd, but putting your life at risk to climb every Scottish peak could also be seen as absurd.

7. Why do you smile at a train when it pulls into a station even when it is a 153 and late?

The ordeal is over?

8. What do you do will all the photos you take?

Have you never been on Instagram etc. ?

9. Do you all use the terms hellfire and my lordz

No

10. What is the reason for marking off train numbers in a book?

Much the same as stamp collecting or anything else collecting but rather cheaper.

I can understand being interested in the infrastructure and how it all works and also interested in the engineering of steam trains but the others to be fair I am at a loss what the attraction is. Please don't take this as a wee wee take I see a lot of spotters and am just trying to understand why they do it?

Some of my answers above are a little flippant. I think what you have to appreciate is that the people exhibiting most of the characteristics you mention above (and no I'm not one) are generally to a greater or lesser extent on the autistic/aspergers syndrome, as are many who indulge in similar hobbies.

What people who mock trainspotters are actually doing is taking the p*ss out of the mildly disabled who are engaging in a harmless activity that does no damage to society and, indeed, brings a lot of revenue to the main line and preserved railways and the publishing industry.

I would rather people saved their contempt for the scroats who go round vandalising and grafitting things, but the not quite as others have always been an easy target.

 

[GatwickDepress]

When I was a spotter in the 1970's and 80's no one I knew bothered with units as there were so many locos running around the network. As a none spotter looking in, the railway seems to be rather boring place now and I do wonder why people bother.

People have said the exact same upon the end of steam, the start of monotonous BR Blue, and even upon the 1928 grouping!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

and another term "haulage".

I'm assuming this means "travelled on"....?

Why do some people "need units for haulage"?

 

[theblackwatch]

and another term "haulage".

I'm assuming this means "travelled on"....?

Why do some people "need units for haulage"?

Because they haven't travelled on them yet! :P

 

[NLC1072]

Can't have been that dangerous though if it happened on a daily basis with minimal fuss. There's a big difference between perceived danger/risk and actual danger/risk.

It's a bit like sticking your head out of a moving train which on the face of it, seems extremely dangerous. In reality, it rarely results in any meaningful injury.

The danger today is the general public has been nannied by health and safety so much that this part of common sense has been erased. If they could openthe door they'd assume they were at a station without checking first...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Because they haven't travelled on them yet! :P

So perhaps another question to add to TDK....why do some people have to travel on every unit for haulage....?